Was Liston-Clay a fix? I don't think so

Couldn't agree more - ALSO EVERYONE CHECK THE LAST PARAGRAPH OF THE ARTICLE POSTED HERE

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=273924

Liston was clearly leaned on in a major way by the black muslims at the very least

 

Yes,
For a punch that was supposed to keep Sonny Liston on the canvas for what
seemed like 25-seconds.
Sonny gets hit, and as he is going down puts both his hands out to help protect him from the fall.

It was a 'bizarre acting performance'.
Besides being illiterate, Sonny had severe mental deficiencies and comprehension issues.
Understanding multiple tasks was extremely difficult.
If the fight was not on the up-n-up, they would have to keep this thing simple.

Another 'concrete-fact' was that Las Vegas did not want this fight,
and they used the 'tool' that Sonny Liston only owned 10% of himself, based on the signed contracts.
With only owning a small portion of himself, they felt it left Sonny open for
possible 'behind door dealings' with,,,,,,,,
When interviewed, the boxing commision stated that Sonny had no
understanding of the contract issues.

 

The University of Maine had a theory class on the Liston-Clay and Ali-Liston
fight scenario's, in 1965 after the second fight.

One scenario was, that in early 1964 Sonny Liston wanted to get out of the boxing game as a fighter, and dabble in big boxing promotions, where the money was.
Something he learned from the Patterson fights, and was told by Ingemar Johannson.

The plan was to beat Cassius Clay, and then fight Ingemar Johannson and then retire.
Their calculations were, that they could make approximately $1,500,000 on the Clay fight, and upwards close
to $2,000,000 on the Johansson fight.
Then do boxing exhibitions in 1965, as part of a world-wide tour covering 25 countries over 26-weeks.
2-3 exhibitions per week, at $10,000 to $15,000 per visit.
Sonny would have grossed approximately $700,000, without taking a punch.

Sonny couldn't believe he could be beaten by Clay, but his left shoulder was really bothering him.
If the fight took a turn for the worse and was extended into the later rounds, Sonny would have trouble.
To hedge his future, Jack Nilon bought the rights to promote Clay's next fight with $50,000.

 

McGrain,

I'm sure you knew Sonny couldn't read and could barely write anything.

Love the way during the 'after-fight' interview up in Lewiston, Maine, when Sonny was aked what kind of punch he was hit with.

He responds, 'I'm not sure'
A reporter asks, 'Was it a surprise punch'
And Sonny says, almost laughing 'Yeah, it was a surprise punch'
Stating that phrase with 'big open eyes' and chewing gum with his baseball cap on.

 

I'd say that has more to do with barely having any education whatsoever than mental deficiencies.

 

Well they're obviously gonna try to make the fix believable.

 

Fight # 1 of '64 was legit down in Miami...thumbsup

Fight # 2 of '65 was crooked as the Mississippi river up in Maine...:fire:shock::dead

MR.BILL:hat

 

Team Ali was fully on the level, but Liston tanked in Maine...

MR.BILL

 

McGrain,

Yes Sonny was clever and was witty.
But on basic comprehension, as per the Nevada State Boxing Commission he
was completely confused when discussing percentages and partnerships.
To the point, where they believed he was intellectually disabled, or some thought.
The contracts were so confusing to him, that he had no understanding of what he was signing.
No understanding of percentages or basic math procedures.
It was believed , that his Quotient score was below 70.

Damn, the poor guy couldn't drive on the Inter-State and understand highway signs and
directions to the airport (as per Jack Nilon).

 

fixes? well then they must be the worst fixed fights in boxing history. liston coulda went down easy at the start of the 3rd round when he was taking big shots and was all cut up. clay is blinded in the 5th and he shows everyone that he can't ko a disabled fighter and then he lets clay take control of the fight and quits on his stool. Yes that was a fixed fight LOL.
2nd fight - legit punch, liston went down to a shot he didn't see and as he was coming in. whether liston then quit on the canvas is a good probability. But you don't fix fights in such an unbelievable way.

 

I'd say a lot of boxers can be confused talking about percentages and partnerships, especially considering the type of "partnerships" we're allegedly talking about with Liston.