Why no questions about Frazier not giving Ali a rematch ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Stevie G, Dec 15, 2010.

  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I don't see how Blin and Lubbers and even Chuvalo and Lewis were much better than Daniels and Stander. But, hey.
    Sure, Ali fought rated contenders but many of those were easy fights.
    And Frazier, nor anyone else, has ever claimed that Daniels and Stander were anything but easy marks.

    The thing is, both Ali and Frazier were quite content to make easy money doing what they were doing. We're talking about less than two-year time frame.
    Frazier had already beat Ali, and the promoter hadn't yet come up with the desired money for the rematch. Ali was busy making money and establishing himself again. I don't see why people are quick to say Frazier avoided Ali. None of these super-fights were easy to make, with independent fighters and independent promoters and live satellite broadcast companies.

    Foreman actually didn't rematch Frazier as champion, and he didn't give Ali a shot for about 20 months, and only then with the fight being made from some corrupt African dictator's national money.
     
  2. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    foreman is a great fighter, he makes my top 10 ATG list but at the unbeaten stage he duplicated ingo johanason, a young talent who KO'd the two best regarded heavyweights then lost his tiltle by KO.

    Losing then coming back actualy counts for a lot.
     
  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I certainly don't count him as unddisputed champion after beating Mathis, nor did many others. A case can be made for him after beating Ellis, but I think FOTC is the most appropiate. It was then he became lineal.

    And even if we call him champ after beating Ellis, three of his five defenses were against unranked opponents.

    He blew the chance after winning every round against Mathis you say? How about after beating Quarry more soundly than Joe himself had? Was it still too soon after his shameful shutout victory over Mathis?:yep

    It was perhaps smart on his behalf, but a champion should defend his title against worthy opposition. Joe went nearly two years without facing serious opposition, and when he did he skipped his mandatory.
     
  4. Son of Gaul

    Son of Gaul Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Very informative. Thank you.:good
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    The fact that Ali may have made the fights look easy is a reflection on his ability ,not the lack of ability of his opponents.

    Blin, Lubbers,Lewis and Chuvalo were all better than Daniels, and Stander and there IS a crucial difference

    Chuvalo was fought in between, Mac Foster ,and Quarry.
    Blin in between Foster, and Mathis.Lubbers just a month after Ali had fought Norton in two back to back fights, he was entitled to a gimme.

    The difference between Ali and Frazier's fights was that Frazier was making defences of the World Heavyweight Title, and, making them against men who had no business being anywhere near a title challenge.
    Frazier cheapened the title with two disgraceful defences over men not ranked in the top 30, let alone top ten.

    Having noted his selection of Dave Zyglewicz as a suitable challenger for the portion of the title he then held, I was not unduly surprised.

    Foreman did not give Frazier a rematch while he was champ?
    Would anybody expect the result to be any different?
    What would that fight have drawn?

    In contrast a ring rusty Ali gave Frazier life and death, going the 15 rds and ,put him in the hospital for a week .Frazier looked like a gargoyle after the fight.
    Bad analogy.
     
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  6. alexvoce

    alexvoce Guest

    End of the day Frazier whooped Ali's ass in the fight which meant the most out of all of them.
     
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  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :good
     
  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I wonder at what times the undisputed HW champion has been as clearly outshone by his top challenger in terms of keeping more active against better opposition as Frazier was by Ali after FOTC. Dempsey by Wills in the 20's, but who else? Perhaps Patterson by Liston, but I'm not sure.
     
  9. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Out of curiosity, does anyone know how the discussions considering a rematch went after Ali beat Quarry the second time? This seems to me to have been the ideal time. Ali had had his most impressive perfomance since his lay-off and Frazier had been taking it easy. Does anyone know any specifics why the rematch didn't come off at this time (late '72 or early '73)?
     
  10. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Each of their three fights meant something Alex. Every trilogy has a beginning,middle and end.
     
  11. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Frazier would n't give a rematch at that point. I recall Ali asking for one many times. After the Quarry rematch especially. I agree that this would have been the perfect time for it to have occured.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Frazier beat an Ali who had had 18 rds of boxing in nearly 4 years.

    End of the day Frazier fought 2 ATG's a total of 5 times .

    Result Won 1 Lost 4, 3 by stoppage.
     
  13. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And that is the truth :good Ali did remarkably well in FOTC considering.
     
  14. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Following Joe Fraziers convincing and dominant win over Muhammad Ali, there
    was no immediate demand for a re-match.

    Besides claiming that he beat Frazier, Muhammad Ali also said that he thought he was ready, but should have had at least (2) more fights, before going in against Joe.

    Ali did not want that fight right away, he just claimed he wanted a immediate re-match.

    Joe Frazier said Ali didn't deserve an immediate re-match, and he wouldn't have given him one unless Joe got a larger portion of the fight purse.
     
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  15. manbearpig

    manbearpig A Scottish Noob Full Member

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    Aye, Ali was pure shite
     
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