Who do you rank higher ATG (P4P)? Hopkins or Monzon

P4P

Who ???
:good

 

Middleweight = Monzon
p4p = Hopkins

 

Enough said.

 

I think that we now have to consider Hopkins to have surpased Monzon, both as a middleweight and pound for pound.

Yes, I said it!

 

Why?

 

That's ******ed. He hasn't fought at middle in 5 years (two consecutive losses being his last efforts in that division). What he does now adds to his legacy as a fighter, though not as a middle. What Monzon did at middleweight has certainly not been surpassed by Hopkins. But what Hopkins has done in his career, over a few weight classes, is unique.

 

Pavlik was the middleweight champion when Hopkins beat him whatever weight the fight took place at.

Also I am not going to disproportionately reward Monzon for not daring to move beyond 160lbs.

 

...Wha-? W-...Ah...Wh-....?

 

This.:deal

 

Usually middleweight accomplishments occur with a limit of 160. If rewards are to be passed out for middleweights, they probably should follow the same guidelines.

Now if you want to go pound for pound, by all means, include his accomplishments at a higher weight. But then again, he merely drew with a weak champion. The fact he was 45 does not give him "more credit" boxing-wise than it does for a 25 year old, at least not in my book. There are no handicaps given to guys entering the ring.

Did someone steal your password? Cuz you usually demonstrate sense than this.

 

Agreed

 

While I would agree that age shouldn't matter in the scoring (as Bernard implied in the post-fight interview that it somehow should) I definitely consider it in assessing greatness.

I rank Foreman as a top four alltime HW, and if not for his phenomenal second run in his forties, he wouldn't make my top dozen.


By the same token, I accord Bernard great credit for last night's performance (I scored it for Pascal 114-112, but 113-113 or a BHop win of 114-112 would have been reasonable).

In recent bouts, Bernard was beginning to disappoint, but last night he pulled out a great performance.

And undoubtedly all the greater for its proximity to his 46th birthday !

 

i think that monzón is greater than hopkins in every aspect and monzón would have beat hopkins

 

Agreed on all points. Thanks for better differentiating what I meant by the age issue. Of course it is impressive and bears on the legacy of a fighter. As someone no longer young, and just a handful of years behind Hopkins, you are damn right I was cheering for him last night. He has laid some stinkers lately where he looked every bit his age. However, last night the magic came back.

 

Better H2H = Monzon
Greater legacy at MW = Monzon
P4P = Bhop if you reward for success at moving up in weight / Monzon if you reward for achievement regardless of weight class.
Greater legacy overall = Monzon