Jack Johnson was stronger than Jim Jeffries

It is indeed, however I'm not sure I'd entirely relly on Mendoza's analysis of the early rounds

 

BUt in the absence of anyone else having seen the early rounds, his views of them have to be the best and most accurate on here, dont they :?:shock:

 

Rounds 1, 2, 4,,12,13,14,and 15 ,are out there ,I don't believe there is a full fight.
Mendoza may have seen these rounds but his interpretation of them flies in the face of what is written about them.
I have no reason to suppose he has given anything but an honest appraisal as he sees it ,but, with all due respect that does not mean it is necessarily an accurate one.

 

Jeffries is his favorite fighter and he's the king of spin (ok after myself )

 

The Jeffries that stepped into the ring that day against Johnson looked like an older guy who went on a diet and joined a health club to impress his girl. Sure he looked good but he looked a little weight drained and his body wasn't the thick muscular dangerous looking body of 5 or 6 years before. Of course Johnson was the stronger athlete that day. He was an active younger fighter who was in prime shape. Plus strength is important in boxing but only one piece of the puzzle. Conditioning is more important and that's where Johnson really had the edge. When fatigue sets in strength fades considerably. When Jeffries began to tire whatever strength he carried to the ring with him left. Johnson didn't tire and his strength stayed with him. What happened to Jeffries that day is very similar to what happened to Ali vs Holmes. Ali looked like he was in shape but he wasn't in fighting shape. He was also weight drained and weak against a champion in his prime. Prime Jeffries would've been a different story.

 

We will never know ,what can be confidently predicted though, is that it would have been a closer fight, whatever the out come. Jeffries trained for a year to get in shape for the fight, he was 34 years old, he did a lot of wrestling and strength exercises but little meaningful sparring. Both

Sullivan and Corbett implored him to spar more but he would not, his judgement of distance and his reflexes were seriously affected, but as has been reported Johnson matched him for strength from the outset, and gave ground because he wanted to ,not because he was forced to do so.

It should also be remembered that Johnson was 32 only 2 years younger than Johnson ,but he had been active ,and ,for once in his life ,Johnson worked like a dog for this fight, he trained faithfully ,and sparred multiple rounds.
John L Sullivan went to see him at camp,and said he was in fantastic condition ,and came away depressed at the prospect of him giving Jeffries a beating.

 

Holmes said in his book that he was startled by how much weaker in the clinches Ali was during their 1980 bout, compared to how strong Muhammad was to wrestle with during sparring prior to Kinshasa in 1974. Ali was only two years removed from the arduous conditioning and final career win in the rematch with Leon Spinks.

Medical problems triggered a dramatic physical deterioration and decrease in strength for myself. I have a pair of hand grip exercisers from when I was in my teens. Back then, I could generate over 5000 repetitions, and felt I could continue indefinitely. Today, getting to 100 repetitions on the same old pair, even with them being more broken in, might be a challenge.

As far as I'm concerned, no conclusions can be drawn about whether or not 1905 Jeffries would have been physically stronger than 1910 Johnson based upon what actually happened in Reno. What I do know is how precipitously conditioned physical strength can decline with inactivity and the passing of time. My personal supposition is that prime Jeff was probably the physically strongest heavyweight champion of all time after Foreman.

Discus legend Al Oerter actually did produce his longest throws while in his 40s during the 1980s (and could have won at least three more Gold Medals after 1968 if he'd never stopped competing in the Olympics), but he reportedly never abandoned his progressive strength training entirely. Jeffries did let himself go completely after retiring as champion.

 

Ali had been out of the ring for two years ,but he was 38 to Jeffries 34, and possibly allready showing signs of his debilitating illness.
Plus he had 59 pro fights , some against seriously heavy duty punchers who were 200lbs plus heavies,Jeffries was 34, and was in his 23rd fight, most of which had been against smaller, older men , he had not had the likes of Liston,Frazier,Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, and Norton banging upside his head.

 

You can argue about level of hitters, but you cant argue that Jeffries didnt suffer the same beatings from Fitzsimmons and Sharkey to name two as Ali did from these guys. Dont forget, the Sharkey fights went a lot longer than Ali vs Frazier ever did, and Jeffries basically only had one arm for this fight. You would think that this did its share of damage to Jeffries.

In any case, it is a bit of a moot point anyway. From what i understand, it seems that Ali took as much if not more punishment in sparring than he did in actual fights. Each fighter is different in their reactions to things. It is pretty rare imo for an older fighter to be as strong as they were when younger. Certainly their timing speed and stamina will nearly always be less, which is the major part of strength in boxing anyway.

 

Johnson may have been stronger on that day...but Jeffries had lost about 100 pounds...its impossible to hold onto your strength when losing that kind of weight...

id say prime jeffries would have been a bit stronger..but cant know for sure of course

 

Jeffries was an older fighter ,but at 34 he was hardly ancient, in fact his major defences were over men of this age and older .
I think Jeffries took a beating from Fitz in their second fight,but Fitz was 47lbs lighter, and 39 years old . and Jeffries in the Sharkey fights had ,32 and over lbs on his rival, and Sharkey was 6 inches shorter than Jeffries.Sharkey went 20rds in their first encounter , Jeffries had 2 good arms for that fight I believe,and throughout that year, [1898 ,]Sharkey scaled inside ,or just over the light heavyweight limit.


.We saw what Ali did when faced with a challenger 41lbs lighter,[Bob Foster] he knocked him. down 6 times before stopping him in 8 rds.
Can you imagine the boxing world's reaction if it were announced that Ali was going to fight a man twice ,and that his opponent would weigh 167 and 172 lbs ,and be 39 years old, and been retired for 2 years ?
Or a 5foot 8in light heavyweight whose style was face first brawling?
I don't know if Jeffries ,or Johnson was stronger, prime for prime ,and to be honest it does not matter to me ,my only interest in this thread is because I believe Johnson was clearly the stronger man when they met,and everthing I have read ,and the footage I have seen bears this out.
Jeffries was probably the strongest Champion up to Willard,and why would he not be he was bigger and heavier than the others,[he was 19lbs heavier than Johnson when they met]?

However, in Reno 1910, Johnson was the stronger man.

 

No myth. I seen pictures of him in Boxing illustrated and Ring Magazine in which he was clearly over 3 bills. You may have seen pics before he got so fat.