Jersey Joe Walcott Vs Sonny Liston

Joe Wally makes the plodding Sonny Liston foolish in the early going of the 15 rounder, but then settles down after a while and begins getting tagged by the ever stalking Liston. I see Sonny Liston landing some serious leather to the head and body of Wally and then lowers the boom in round 10.. Liston KTFO of a classy and skilled champion who simply gets caught by the "Ugly Bear."

MR.BILL

 

sounds good.:good

 

Liston by decision in a fight that would have been somewhat frustrrating for Sonny.

 

I agree, I think Walcott would make Liston look foolish at points but he would be too busy playing catcher to make much of a case for himself with the judges. I don't know, Jersey Joe could steal it, Ali did score a legit knockdown over Sonny with the counter right lead, Joe's money punch. Pretty competitive fight.

 

If the top form JJW gets into the ring he could be fits for Liston with his side to side and sneaky pin-point punching...I like Joe by a UD and could drop Sonny with one of his pin-point-power-punches along the way..JJW does not allow Sonny to get set and keeps him shifting gears

 

Sooner or later Sonny knocks out Wally

 

liston in his prime would clean the division of marciano like garbage.even a prime charles or prime walcott would be victims for a prime sonny.
liston had almost the reach of valuev, the hardest jab ever,good stamina, good skill, good speed, he was more powerful than marciano and i would say harder puncher too. he was stronger for sure and faster than marciano, more accurate. liston by ko or by ud.

 

Why is it that some fans get taken in by the obvious talents of the 3 bullies, Liston, Tyson & Foreman & assume they would bulldoze just about every HW in history except for Ali?

Some people just tend to look at the hightlight reel kayoes of these guys, the ogre like auras and reputations of these guys without assessing the antidotes to them. It's like the "hardest" guy in the school playground...the school bully...everyone assumes he's the hardest, but then somebody comes along, stands up to him, and sometimes, not always granted, sometimes the aura is destroyed and is never the same again.

All of Liston, Foreman & Tyson fit this bill. All looked and were viewed as absolutely unstoppable until they were, erm, stopped - that is, until their flaws were exposed - and in my opinion, their flaws were at least in part of the mental variety.

Look at their records and performances overall:

Liston - Clay/Ali showed that that Liston wasn't the bravest - could you see some of the braver HW champs, i.e. Holyfield, Frazier or Marciano quitting like Sonny did?

Foreman - so believed in his own hype after the Frazier & Norton fights that he thought he could just turn up swinging against anybody in order to win - he was so emotionally dismantled by Ali I don't think he ever got his self belief back to the level it was before Zaire.

Tyson - well we know he mentally unravelled both in and out of the ring.

Strength, intimidation and power only take you so far, and one invariably needs more against the real ATGs as the guys I've listed above proved.

JJW v GF - I like Jersey Joe in this. Although George can't be ruled out (JJW wasn't unbeatable) JJW had the experience, footwork & smarts to evade the wild swings of George early on, the boxing ability needed to outbox George and counter his many mistakes, the stamina to outlast him and the power to drop and hurt him.

JJW on points over 12 or 15 rounds.

 

Sorry guys, I got distracted midpost by an important phone call and when I came back swapped Liston for big George!

I think Liston is a tougher fight for JJW than Foreman as I think George was cruder than Sonny, and Sonny was probably cleverer. However, Liston was quite an othordox fighter, very methodical and JJW was extremely clever and I think Liston's orthodoxy does suit JJW to a degree. I think this is very close. In a trilogy, I go 2-1 either way, I lean slightly toward JJW to win the series, but think that Sonny is capable of a KO in one of the trilogy.

 

you are right in part and you are wrong in part.

foreman did show a great heart against lyle or prime holyfield.
liston was not a coward, simply he was frustrated and he understood that he had no chance to beat a prime ali.of course he did not have the heart of holyfield or frazier, but they did not face prime ali....
yes, foreman never was the same fighter post zaire. a prime foreman 72-74 would absolutely destroy walcott it for sure.

on tyson, i think that he never had heart. and he was very weak mentally. but he was a great prospect, tyson with rooney in his corner would kill walcott

 

I agree with the above posting by combat, well said. Anyone who has viewed Sonny taking William's bombs without backing down and just kept coming knows Liston wasn't a coward any more then Duran was when he quit against Leonard. Both were frustrated and took the easy way out in those bouts. In Sonny's second go with Ali he was unable to get himself together physically or mentally, the reports of his training were that he was like a stumbling old man getting taken apart in sparring, tripping constantly trying to jump rope, unable to find any semblance of his younger self. With that in mind I believe Sonny told the truth when he said the right hand from Ali stunned him badly, he was that much deteriorated. The younger just keep coming Liston might have been dropped and outfoxed by Walcott for awhile but eventually a very strong Sonny batters and ko's the former champ.

 

:good
although i think sonny knocks him out in the late rounds,but joe could very well steal a decision and make sonny foolish at times

 

Combat - with all respect, I don't think I am wrong!

I did not say Foreman lacked heart, I said he was emotionally dismantled in Zaire and in my opinion never fully recovered his aura.

You say Liston was no coward, but he quit cold against Ali, he did not go out on his shield as imo Frazier, Holyfield or Marciano would have done - the reason I offer this opinion is that there is nothing in the record of these 3 or their approach to their fights to suggest they would have quit against a "prime" Ali as you put it. Another poster has pointed out that Liston showed bravery against Cleve Williams - yes he did come back from big shots to win, which is brave obviously, but Clay/Ali obviously found a different defect in Liston's armour - a mental defect - a flaw which he fully exploited, and made Liston quit.

I think we need to realise that bravery is not a constant thing for some individuals, some people are not as reliable in adversity as others, that's human nature - for example why did Liston bail out against Ali but not against Williams? Why did Nigel Benn get kayoed by a jab from Michael Watson yet get up from huge shots against McLellan and win? Why did Tyson force Mills Lane to DQ him in the second Holyfield fight yet take his licks against Lennox Lewis?

The original point I made was that some fans are taken in by the auras that surrounded Liston, Foreman and Tyson and that these fans can't see past the aura and that the primary strengths that these 3 possess, power, strength and intimidation, are not always guaranteed to be sufficient to steamroll ATGs - I stand by my original comment that some fans can't accept this.:good

 

I respect Joe's skill set but it bothers me that other than a Hail Mary against Charles he really is know for all his losing efforts and it does not fill me with confidence bout his chances.

Of course he could be very tricky but Liston was not Foreman. He'd keep his powerful, ramrod jab out in Joe's direction and keep him on the defensive .. we never saw a prime Walcott who could move all night as he came into histories awareness as an already 34 year old man so I just don't know if he could keep up his moves for 15 rounds ... if he could I can see him outboxing Sonny and possibly dropping him at some point and earning his respect .. I'd pick Liston by decision over the Walcott I've seen but a prime Walcott , who knows .. a very interesting match up ...