Willie Joyce was a good win aswell amongst others. Don't forget he beat Wright and Bartolo 3 times apiece aswell. I still feel that Pep ability wise may have an edge overall, and I feel the same might be true in regards to his dominance at featherweight and that's why I rank him ahead of Ali. Longevity wise, Ali had longer between top wins but it's hard to split them given the regularity with which Pep fought and obviously the plane-crash disrupting his career and taking something out of him as a fighter, again possibly an edge to Pep.
Ok my bad on the Willie Joyce mention Tommy, i knew i'd missed some out, but like i said it only adds to my argument imo, Pep has depth to no end, but Ali has a better resume. Dpeth doesn't necessarily mean better to me, Ali's three best wins alone are just amazing, and he has a good degree of depth himself. The debate of who was better ability wise is speculative ultimately and even if i might agree that Pep was better i don't see how that overthrows Ali's resume when we're talking greatness. That's my take anyway.
Ali's three top wins - Liston I, Frazier II and Foreman I'd hazard a guess at? For me - personally - Pep's win over Saddler trumps any of those, genuinely. I rate Saddler higher P4P than any of Liston, Frazier or Foreman and Pep beat in his prime post-plane crash. If you add his win over probably a slightly past-prime Chalky Wright [I think Liston was past-prime by the time he fought Ali too, so it's only fair] from '42 and one of his other top wins from the names you mentioned above [maybe one of his other 3 wins over Wright] and I think it's close. And Pep has depth to his resumé too.
I'm not contesting that Pep has depth Tommy, but Ali does as well, so you can't credit one without the other. My argument is that even if Pep has a bit more depth, Ali has a better resume, and you can say that Saddler is a better win than any of Ali's three, but you can also argue the other way quite easily, it's not set in stone that Saddler is a better win by any means, Foreman, Frazier and Liston are all cited as top ten heavies by countless fans and posters constantly. I don't think any of Pep's other wins, (as much depth as he has) are approaching those to be honest. Pep had been in a plane crash and broke his back i believe yes, and that adds to how brilliant a fighter he was, and like i keep saying, if we're debating who the better fighter was then that would hold much weight and possibly seal that for it him, although it's close either way, but we're talking greatness and i just don't see it for Pep, Ali has a better resume mate.
Pish list! Tyson would be lucky to get in a top 5 heavyweights ever let alone op 5 ATGs ffs! Cliched, stereotypical picks you would find in a general sports magazine where they don't know boxing.
Ali has a great resume. If you include his lesser wins like Williams, Cooper and so on, you have to do the same for Pep. Ali´s resume sounds better because his opponents are better known and go down easy.
Good picks indeed! Thats about how my list would be as well. Chisora will be in there one of these days! :hi:
Don't you think that's a bit patronising bodhl? Telling me that Ali's wins are more famous, you know that i don't give brownie points for fame and that i know my obscure fighters from history. I did credit Pep with his lesser known wins such as Jackie Graves Jackie Wilson etc etc, so your response is kind of void.
Ironic because some oldtimers are already putting Pac in Armstrongs level and Steward even said Pac seems better. That was the Cotto fight.
This. I don't really do these lists because people will say why don't you have him in or him in. I can't put them in because I've never seen them fight and I'm not putting them in just because I have to. It's the same when I put down the best football team, how can I have Eusebio or Beckenbauer when I've never seen them play?
