After rewatching Pac-Marquez II and Pac-Morales I,II,III...

I have to conclude that the Pac from those years was a better fighter to the WW Pac of today.
Why? Simply because those guys (Marquez and Morales) were absolutely superior in P4P terms to all the guys Manny has faced since then. Pac showed me better footwork and punch selection in those fights. Just the fact he was facing better oposition in those bouts forced him to be more aware and tactical. He was a full time boxer, not a part congressman-part boxer like now. To me, that showed in the Margarito fight.

Old Oscar, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey and Margarito were just bigger and heavier than those guys, nothing more. In every other aspect of the game, the Morales (yes, even the supposedly shot Morales) and Marquez are better fighters than recent Pac oponents.

The Pac we are seing now, even tho is dominating, is a fading fighter.

 

I'm sold on that part except for Morales in the rematches, but everything else you have to convince me more of.

 

His achievements then may have been greater but that does not necessarily mean he was a better fighter then. He looks a lot more rounded today but at the same time he isn't fighting better competition to test those skills.

You say he is fading but I also think it maybe to do with his reliance on his athleticism. I sometimes feel he used to just run through guys at times below 140 which he can't do on the bigger men. He just can't employ the same tactics at this weight.

 

:nutExactly correct, clottey, rito and cotto include hugton are never top tier pnd for pnd fighters. floyd, morales etcera are and the kind of fighters that will test Pac. Mosley too. Pnd for pnd analyst are rarely wrong, i give them cred except when they had pavlik right up there :nut

 

I think his athleticism has faded but his ring intelligence has improved. I wish the fight with Mayweather happens already so we can know for sure. And after that he can move on and maybe test himself further either with a fight at jmw or cleaning jww.

 

I made a similar thread about a month ago.

More so than Manny supposedly making huge improvements since his days at 126 and 130 is the fact that while he has had to deal with bigger fighters, the quality of the fighters has decreased as hes gone up in a p4p sense. JMM, Morales, MAB- these guys are first ballot hall of famers. Clottey and Margarito arent even Oscar Larios-level on a p4p scale. Whats been impressive is how he's handled the extra weight, a physical specimen as well as atg fighter.

 

Better punch selection? Better footwork? :huh

 

pac back then was a better fighter than what he is now?

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really?

 

I've made this point several times on ESB.

 

In a few years people will look back at a flyweight that cleaned out welter, its sick.

 

Not really, I have told it many times, look at the way Pacquiao fight Solis and Velasquez now compare it with his fight with much superior opponent with Cotto and Clottey, and you will see that Pacquiao did really improve.

Nowadays Pacquiao throws certain combination that he does not do before, Pacquiao is also better at countering and has a stronger right hook. He also has a better balance and footwork.

 

actually I think it's more of a case that he was at his peak physically. he was way faster and in a P4P sense he punched much much harder. he was fighting against guys with similar reach and who were closer in weight to him. His power at 130 and below was incredible compared to what it is today, back then a straight left was all it took to floor a guy, even if his opponents saw the punches coming they would go down.

Still I agree with your point that skill wise, his opponents back then were much better. And that's not even dissing his opponents 140 and above.

 

geez which one is it?

Pac's competitors were old and washed up at 130 or they weren't really good fighters at 147?

 

really? have you seen how wild pacman was in his first marquez and first morales fight? he only had two punches, compare that to his wide ofeensive arsenal today? then compare his performance against the tall and lanky fringe contender jorge solis to his taller opponents today, lets see if you don't see any improvements

 

:yikes

You sir, are an idiot. No further discussion required.