Moore was a puncher indeed and that punch had all of his weight on it as awkward as it was it was designed for Rocky and had some success but not enough, in fact Marciano sprung right up and went to work
I don't know why people say that. It was the traditional Moore right hand counter and Marciano walked right into it. Ali's punch didn't look like much and Liston later said that he wasn't really hurt, but it's possible that he suffered a flash knockdown and was less than willing to get up for whatever reason. According to himself it was because he thought Ali was crazy and would have hit him had he gotten up, and blamed Walcott and Fleischer for his loss.
a few of the inside people I knew on both sides throughout the years have confirmed the fix was in...weather or not Liston could have beaten Ali was one thing but to bet on a 1st rd KO against Sonny Liston....Liston did a very poor job at looking like he was KO'd in fact if it was Hollywood there would need to be a retake of that seen, simply not believable
Which "inside" people? I see this term thrown around but I'd like to know if these people were actually inside at all or just shooting their mouths off. It's just that I hear this a lot.
He was knocked flat by Leotis Martin and dropped by a light heavy, so it's not impossible that Ali would put him down. He should have been able to get up the moment he was knocked down though, seemed more like he went off balance after the punch.
alexvoce,,,,, So true,,,,,,,,,, This fight wasn't so much of a 'fix' as money exchanging hands in terms of 'betting'. It was more of Sonny cashing out. His fight purse was the same as Ali's (maybe a tad less), plus Sonny got a very nice percentage from InterContinental-Promotions, Inc., the fight promoters. Invested properly, he was set for life, or so he was told.
I don't think it looks hard at all. Like an unexpected arm punch that can cause a flash KD if it lands clean. That's all.
My friend has a dad who was involved with the big gamblers in Vegas during the fight. Right before the fight started he said he got a call from his friend saying "Bet on Ali." Which could mean mean a lot of things. But I also know that to this day, if you ask Ali he will tell you the fight was on level, and Liston did not take a dive. I also read from at least 5 different reports taht Liston's eyes were gone after the fight, all the way until he was in the dressing room using smelling salts. He was out of it. And like someone else mentioned, he DID get up before 10.
It's the same he punch he had finished off Olson with in his previous fight and later knocked down Durelle with. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLvs0AvGK4Y[/ame] 3:05 The knockdown actually reminds me of [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4X5fzBGds94[/ame]
It wasn't a good 'betting' fight to make money on. Sonny Liston was a 13-10 favorite. No,,,,,the first fight was the 'betting' fight. Odds jumping from 8-1, to as high as 10-1 and back down to 7-1. On the ground in Miami Beach, Monday 2/24, the day before the fight, alot of action on Cassus Clay, bringing the street odds to 4-1 Sonny Liston. Sonny Liston to put Cassius Clay in the hospital 3-1. Sonny Liston to 'kill' Cassius Clay 10-1. TRUTH,,,,,,
I knew some of the Muslims that controlled Ali and some boxing people close to Ali, Chris Dundee brother of Angelo was a very connected guy close to Frankie Carbo and Santo Traficante... It was never outright stated that Liston took a dive (I think that was obvious) it was inferred....The issue was not that Liston lost a fight that he could have won, the issue was did he get KO'd in the 1st rd by Ali...did he and others make money on this result...Funny but Ali had only 2 first rd KO's and Sonny Liston was one of them, the other was in Alis 4th pro fight against a 1-2 James Robinson who weighed 177lbs, the highest Robinson ever weighed, in fact in Robinson's next fight he was KO'd in 1 by a middleweight Claude Green
Right, and then there's the whole Evangelista-LeDoux rivalry that rocked the world and continues to divide fans...never seen anything like it. Alfredo all the way! But as far as Ali-Liston II goes, Ali and Jersey Joe are the ones that made the result cloudy. If Ali had followed the rules for a change and gone to a neutral corner instead of screaming at Liston, I think Sonny would've arisen and the fight would've gone on. Walcott let Ali run amuk -as ref's often did- and totally ****ed up the fight. But.... why was Ali yelling at Liston in the first place, telling him to get up? I think it's because he knew he hadn't tagged Sonny very hard and that Liston was taking a dive. Ali should've back off, waited to see if Liston got up, then kept fighting if necessary. Ali never bragged about this victory that I'm aware of, which I also find telling. You'd think if he believed it legit, he'd still be shouting about it.