Youngest Heavyweight Champion Ever: Patterson or Tyson?

If it is that simple, explain it to me!

 

Make this a sticky...

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If it's a state title, it's not a world title. And the NYSAC title actually ended up becoming part of the WBC, as did a number of local organizations (between the WBC and WBA).

I suppose everybody could have their own standards on what belts do and do not count to them because they don't like its champion or what have you, but if we're discussing historical records (such as the youngest champion), then the only thing that counts is the opinion of the record-keeping and certifying body, which is the International Boxing Hall of Fame. They're the body consulted by Guiness for all official boxing records. The IBHOF is the body that said, "these four organizations will have equal status for all records, and its champions are all equal". Going by that standard, there's really no argument that Tyson was not the youngest heavyweight champion in history, which has been my point all along. What I'm proposing is that for the sake of being all on the same page, that we go with that official definition. Otherwise we'll just be spending forever arguing apples and oranges because we can't even agree on what a champion is, or what lineal is or what happens when a lineal champion is not beaten in the ring.

 

I know how the old state sanctioning bodies and newpapers originally chose to recognize their champs. That's not how it works anymore at the interntional level. But again, "generally" is too vague a term because we never know who makes that claim. The whole reason there are titles and belts in the first place is so that there is an official designation. Otherwise - why have them at all? Why not always go with one's impression of public sentiment? If people generally feel Floyd is the best welterweight in the world and he didn't lose his title in the ring, does that make him the lineal welterweight champion because he's *generally* perceived the be the best? I'm pretty sure that "general sentiment" probably varies from country to country. Ask someone in Germany who the real middleweight champion is. It becomes a mess if you're going to disregard titles, especially since they're the same titles who promote people to top contender status for us to recognize in the first place.

 

But you still have yet to explain why organizations like the IBHOF, WBA, WBO, WBC, IBF and NBA are official and why PG, NSC, IBU, BBB of C, NYSAC, The Ring, Boxing Illustrated, the numerous American States that recognized World Champions, EBU, IBO, IBC, WBU, WBF and every title held by RJJ are not recognized.

Why is Herbie Hide a Two time World Champion and Jack Johnson never a World Champ?

If you want it black and white, kudos; but come on, explain your standards and reasons.

 

Jack Johnson *is* a world champ. I never said otherwise. It's about the underlying history behind the titles. If it were up to me, I would just recognize the titles that linked directly to the champions of antiquity. In antiquity, the champions were basically annointed via press. When the first official bodies came into being (NYSAC and NBA), they gave the championships by de facto to the fighters who were the media-recognized champions. That's what linked the lineage between the pre-sanctioning body champions and the sanctioning era champions. For example, the NBA's first champion was Jack Dempsey. They automatically recognized them as their champion because he was the acknowledged heavyweight champion of the world by media concensus (same as Jack Johnson). That established the link between antiquity and the current era as the NBA eventually became the WBA. Ditto with the NYSAC and its eventual transformation into the WBC.

If it were up to me, I would leave it at those two, since they have a direct link to every other world champion in history. That's also what sets that apart from all of the other organizations you mentioned (many of which, as I mentioned, have actually rolled up into the world organizations, such as the NYSAC).

But going objectively, I defer to the IBHOF since they're the organization who maintain the records and report the records to Guiness. The IBHOF recognizes the two lineal organizations, but they also recognize the WBO and the IBF. Not my preference, but if we're talking about records, that's what we go by.

 

Via such organizations such as the Police Gazette, which you do not seem to recognize...

But anyway you surely recognize Patterson as the youngest Heavyweight World Champion as the press recognized Spinks World Champion until the Tyson fight?

 

He won the title at an age younger than patterson. To me thats straight forward. Thats what the record books show and thats good enough for me. It really is that simple

 

So you recognize who? Who are these lineal organizations? Boxing Illustrated and The Ring? National Sports Council and Boxing News? Police Gazette and the International Boxing Union?

 

But it is a recorded fact, that I was recognized as SHBF champion aged 14 (July 1988 Boxing News), thus mocking the farce of alphabet crap, as clearly I never boxed as a pro, and thus should not call myself a Heavyweight Champion of the World.

Tyson to call himself The Heavyweight Champion of the World had to beat the beat the man, who beat the man etc, a run that went back to 1956 and Floyd Patterson.

Tyson, kudos to him, did what I could not and won that Championship, as the second youngest ever to do so, behind one Floyd Patterson.