How Techniaclly Skilled was Harry Greb?

that's fascinating klomp, i had no idea. i knew his ring tenure significantly lowered the bar but it's a nice anecdote about the behind the scenes politics and tomfoolery at the "Bible of Boxing"

 

:good:good

bodhi, you are a doubting Thomas. We have no film of the man many, many historians call the greatest of alltime, because of his record never equaled. No I do not have film, but my dad who saw Harry Greb in 1922,absolutely destroy Gene Tunney at MSG ,and hundreds of great fighters until 1950s, still called Greb the best fighter he had ever seen...And he was a devoted boxing fan since 1916 or their abouts..He saw Leonard, Walker, Robinson, Ike Williams, Beau Jack, Canzoneri,Willie Pep
etc. So I valued his opinions. No I never saw what Harry Greb looked like in a ring, but my dad did, and his opinion was good enough for me...Cheers :good

 

I would totally agree with this ,if it works for you etc -----.

 

This post is probably as good an evaluation as we will get ,imo.

 

I've said this before but it's worth repeating:

Sugar Ray Robinson's fighting style was like classical music. Flawless. Textbook. All the notes are perfect and in place

Harry Greb was like jazz music. Improvisational. Impulsive. Capricious. Totally in and of the moment.

I'm currently reading a bio on the great pianist Thelonious Monk. He had a style that many critics (early in his career anyway) deemed "wrong". He hit "wrong" notes and "bent" chords and at times flattened them out. It took years before the critics finally realized what he was doing and tag him with the "genius" mantle.

He usually ignored any implorings that he play "normal", but on a few occasions when pushed he relented. He suddenly burst into textbook stride piano, playing blistering arpeggios and rolls while sampling bits from acknowledged masters like Art Tatum, Fats Waller and Bud Powell. After these impressive displays of musical virtuosity he would invariably turn to the questioner and remark "See? I can do what everyone else is doing and what they've already done. But that doesn't interest me. I'm looking for my own voice."

This makes me think of Greb. I've read a few fight reports here and there where he burst into textbook boxing; ducking and jabbing and moving and throwing combos. He could do that when the need or desire arose. But Harry, like Monk, was a man who lived completely in the moment. He looked for his own "voice" and he found it.

A funny aside: A piano student humorously recalled Monk watching him play and after a few moments Monk remarked to the kid "You're making the wrong mistakes".

I could totally imagine Greb saying such a thing to a young boxing student in the gym .

 

Great post, Monk did indeed develop his own "voice", but he played all the standards first.:good

 

I think Greb was highly skilled, he had to be or he never would have doen what he did. I know he must have had awesome speed and stamina. But what I don´t know is how skilled, how fast and how good his stamina really was. I get an idea by the reports, interviews and so on but it really is just a glimpse of greb´s actual skill, stamina, speed. We´ll never know.

Same for Napoles. If there was no film but fight reports, interviews of contempraries and so on, we would know he must have been highly skilled, packed a good punch and been very good defensivly - and that he cut easy. But how good exactly he was, we wouldn´t know.

Burt, I have no quarrel with that. I rank Greb up there as well based on his record, fight reports and the opinion of the people of his time. That´s not what I argue. What I argue is that we can´t know how skilled he really was.

 

I sometimes wonder, if film of Greb fighting surfaced after all these years,would it be a monumental anti climax?
Could any reality,live up to the legend?

 

When I hurt that Tim Burton, who is one of my favourite directors, I love his style, makes Alice in Wonderland I was so excited I could have cried. It just fitted perfectly together. I had to wait more than a year before I got to see it. During that time my expectations became higher and higher. When I finally saw it I was soo dissapointed.

Same would happen here. Expectations are too high.

 

Informative and eloquent.

 

bodhi, what Greb looked like if you saw by luck, a film of him boxing ONE of his 300 fights, should have NO bearing of his greatness. Not an iota.
If perchance 100 years from now, a boxing fan saw a film of Ray Robinson fighting Randy Turpin no1 in England or Ray against Ralph Tiger Jones or Marty Servo, or Artie Levine[most likely kod], what would that fan conclude?...If that same boxing fan saw Joe Louis against Schmeling,1936
or Arturo Godoy No.1, or Ezzard Charles, or Rocky Marciano, what would he
conclude. Or Ali against a Doug Jones, or Ken Norton, or Larry Holmes etc,
what would out fan 100 years from now conclude ? It is the whole body of work and his total record and,what his contemporaries,who saw these great fighters,judged his true abilities. A film or two you would see of Greb,would not be indicative of his surreal record and his place in History.I go with
the great writers, and boxing historians,and fighters who marveled at the Pittsburgh Windmill. They who SAW him and had nothing to gain,such as Ray Arcel, Whitey Bimstein, Nat Fleischer, Gene Tunney, Larry Gains,Maxie
Rosenbloom, Mickey Walker,and just about every fighter [hundreds],were better able to judge him than you from a film today,methinks.
No fighter looks impressive in all his bouts,that is a fact.
Finally this analogy: If there is a 600 pound barbell in a room, and a man alone walks in that room unaided. He leaves the room soon after, and you
walk in the room and find the 600 pound barbell resting on a shelf over your head.What his method was in lifting that enourmas weight over his head is academic...The fact is he did it. And so with Harry Greb. He with one eye,for a good part of his career fought and licked bigger and heavier
HOFamers, time and again, ducking no one. He got the job done, better than anyone, and that's what counts....

 

Burt, I´m not argueing Greb´s greatness. He is one of at best six fighters who can claim to be the greatest fighter ever IMO. What I argue is our ability to judge his technique. I think we can´t, at best we can get an idea of it, a glimpse of what he really was.

 

b
b, what you are really saying,is you are unhappy with the fact that you
[and I],have never seen Harry Greb fighting on film ! But there are so many,boxing experts who saw Harry Greb, and fighters many years later, and still extolled his greatness. The mere FACT that a 160 pound fighter can lick a Tommy Gibbons[watch Gibbons destroy Jack Bloomfield], Tommy
Loughran, Gene Tunney, Jack Dillon, Battling Levinsky, Gunboat Smith,
Maxie Rosenbloom, Bill Brennan, and a host of other great fighters who were 15-25 pounds heavier,solidifies his ranking as the best P4P fighter who ever lived. If not him, who could do at his weight, what he did ?
Ray Robinson who I saw in his very prime several times, was the best all
around fighter in history, BUT couldn't and wouldn't tackle the likes of
Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Lloyd Marshall,Harold Johnson,Jimmy Bivens
etc. Ray knew his limitations wisely.Was not sturdy enough for such a task.
Harry Greb, because of his unique qualities and utter FEARLESSNESS, had no limitations...Because of his STYLE of fighting, in 300 bouts, the Iron
City Express,proved he was the most "effective" P4P fighter who ever lived.
If not him,who did better...Take care b...