Joe Frazier was a proud black man who never sucked up or played the fool for anyone. To say he was "an Uncle Tom compared to Ali" is absolutely bull****. Ali was the one acting the clown, with all the white guys hanging round him.
Uncle Tom,,,,,, It was Cassius Clay who chased 'the man' Bill Faversham, and begged,,,,,,,,,,, 'please get me on a fight card, I'll do anything'
joe frazier let ali win. the people knew ali was playing and winding frazier up with uncle tom but he believed it to be true. frazier shoulda fought back - public knew you couldn't take ali too serious - he was looked on as being a comedian/entertainer aswell as being a great boxer.
Ali destroyed him in the war of words, but ... I guess Frazier fought back in the way he knew best - in the ring. He inflicted serious physical damage. Received some too.
Yea the jokes on me for that NRA picture. I didnt give it a proper look, that was silly. But have you not heard of the Fruit of Islam? [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_Islam[/ame] " - I never said they ceased to be involved in boxing - you did." The point went over your head. Yes, the mob have accomplished lots of corruption throughout it's existence in America. Im not arguing accolades here. And if I were, the first thing I would mention is that the mob was white, and how they as a group had two totally different agendas. But in the 60's and till 75, the mob would not stand a chance going to war with the NOI. They had more than 20 thousand members. It could even be around 40 thousand. You really think the mob would stand a chance against a military trained unit of thousands of members who had assault rifles? But the nation of Islam is not exactly my area of expertise. I do know that Ali is a great person who has made genuine contributions, and has genuine love for society and people. And all the things I have said about the first Liston fight are as true as his word is behind closed doors. Which is pretty damn true
Some white guys, plus the entire rest of the world "To say he was "an Uncle Tom compared to Ali" is absolutely bull****." Ali goes to Africa and get's treated like a hero. :huh
First off,,,,,,,neither was an 'Uncle Tom' Ali just used the label as a joke,,,,,,but then the media grabbed hold of it, and Ali 'the quick witted one' took off with it. Just like when he said Floyd Patterson was 'The Black White Hope' Unfortunately, Ali didn't know when to stop, or the difference when a funny joke then turns into cruel and mean-spirited humor, at the expense of someone else. Most people 'black or white', never thought it was funny, just a couple of hack sports reporters and a few hollywood-types. REZ,,I do get a kick out of you..........one thing nobody can take from you,,,,,,,'you are passionate' But on a lighter note, do you really think the Mob would go to war to keep the Heavyweight Title away from Muhammad Ali, or the Nation of Islam, just so Sonny Liston could have it.
I've heard of The Fruit Of Islam, but I don't see anything about them all being trained and armed with assault rifles. I think that was more a Black Panther thing, armed revolutionaries. The mafia were 'world-class' assassins, and probably killed JFK along with elements within the CIA. If the NOI had been so formidable, so dangerous, the FBI would have wiped them out. I think. They had no intention, or capacity, to go to war with anyone, But that's straying from the point. The point is, the mafia had nothing to be concerned about. The NOI had some power in the black community, but that's it. When Muhammad Ali came to fight in Las Vegas, that's mob turf, and in Miami too, was mob town. Mobsters were concerned about Federal Investigators and senators who weren't on their payroll, they didn't care about the NOI, a black cult. The NOI never got rid of the gambling and drugs in the black ghettos, and that's the only thing the mob would ever care about when it comes to the NOI. They certainly didn't muscle mobsters out of the boxing business. I simply don't believe what you are saying. It's a childish analysis. In your opinion. Frankly, sounds like Ali selling simple little stories for simple little children.
What's your point ? Do you also think Frazier was an "Uncle Tom compared to Ali" ? He simply wasn't. Ali goes to Africa and is treated like a God, so what ? Michael Jackson got the same treatment almost everywhere he went at one point, what does it prove ? Does it prove that Frazier was more of an "Uncle Tom" ?
Good question. And my own take on this .... the mob as a whole, or even a single crime 'family' as a whole, never had that much of an interest in the fight game, but individual mobsters (some quite high-ranking) did. That's why Carbo being put away DID cause some major minimizing of mob power in big time boxing. But also, these mobsters were shrewd and would have realized by the 1960s that the closed-circuit TV was where the money could be skimmed, and no need to attach themselves entirely to this boxer or that, or this venue/promoter or that one, but move up the ladder somewhat. They didn't need to go to war with anyone, they bought in to legit businesses legitimately ! And used their reputations to get very favourable deals. Not just in boxing, but in all the entertainment and hospitality industries, across America. These were the new slick mobsters, modern-thinking. Secondly, most among the leadership of the NOI had no interest in boxing. Clay/Ali was useful publicity, but the last thing they wanted was to promote young black men going into the professional sports. Herbert Muhammad was happy to leach off Ali and deal with whatever promoters and groups had the power, but the NOI was against black men becoming athletes, and they made their money in other small community and inner-city grassroot businesses , and through membership subscrptions and donations, like any organized religion does, and didn't need to get involved in 'white' corporate entertainment or mob-owned sports businesses. The only time if came up, was around Ali-Terrell, and within a few months after that Ali was 'exiled' and a year later he was suspended from the NOI by Elijah Muhammad for being a pro athlete ! The story of NOI vs mob fight for control of boxing doesn't ring true. The whole idea is absurd, and just a little fairytale.
the thing is the people that had gotten around clay wanted the political publicity for their own gain and clay was naive enough to swallow all this bull**** and had the sort of ego that liked being in the limelight. so in a way they fitted each other like a glove
It s actually quit sad seeing people just out of their teens being manipulated by clowns. FFS, these Black Muslims had the most ridiculous excuse for a religion's beginning.... talk of space ships and all kinds of dribble.. All the back slapping that goes on amongst these mobs, christ, it's like a dozens Don Kings in the same room. Nothing short of evil.