I have to say that this is a great topic. BUT the porblem is how can you go against Ali. I think Liston has a shot.
I have no problem going against Ali, but if the fight is stylistically so stacked in his favor and he already beat an aging but still good Liston in reality, then it's an easy choice for me.
1966 Mar. 29George Chuvalo Competitive W 15 WORLD May 21 Henry Cooper overmatched KO 6 WORLD Aug. 6 Brian London overmatched KO 3 WORLD Sept. 10 Karl Mildenberger Competitive KO 12 WORLD Nov. 14 Cleveland Williams 357 Mag in gut KO 3 WORLD 1967 Feb. 6 Ernie Terrell B-plus fighter W 15 WORLD Mar. 22 Zora Folley 10 years past prime KO 7 WORLD Ali said later after K.O. ing Zora Folley, that Zora was a nice man and he wanted to give him & his family a payday. Most of the boxing community of the day agreed with that statement.
I think it safe to assume that neither man was in his perspective prime in 1964. Ali was still in the embryonic phases of his career, wheras Liston was declining a bit. He was reported as 32 years old, but according to some experts and historians may even have been as old as 35. He fought only once in 1962, and once in 1963. Both of those fights consisted of single round matches with Floyd Patterson. Liston was definately not the wrecking machine that he once was when he faced a young Clay/Ali. Ali on the otherhand had only fought a few decent men in henry Cooper, Archie Moore who was older than Christ and a few others. By 1967, Muhammad Ali was more mature and far better seasoned than he had been 3 years earlier against Liston. Sonny in my opinion reached his peak around 1960 when he destroyed 5 decent heavyweight in a single year including, Folley, Williams, and Machen. An early Liston was very impressive on film and was truly a great force. His jab was one of the best I've ever seen on a heavyweight except for maybe Larry Holmes'. His power was devastating, but not uncontrolled. At times, Liston showed poise in wearing down a foe before stopping him late, if thats what he needed to do. I would still pick a peak Ali to beat Sonny, but by a closer margin than what actually happened. I still feel that Liston never quite was able to figure out Muhammad Ali, and likely wouldn't have done it even at his best. Ali frustrated Liston, who had hoped to intimidate him. The psycholigical factor would always be in favor of Ali, as would speed, and stamina. Liston's power was brutal, but remember Ali was a man who would later test his chin against George Foreman and Earnie Shavers, when he was past his prime at that. A peak Ali would not be terribly threatened by the punches of Sonny Liston as devastating as he was.
I think a 1958 liston has a lot better chance than some people think. he was a much different fighter then, than in 1964 much faster. liston at his best has a good chance at getting to ali, but alis speed might always be too much for him.
Foley, on his hand, praised Ali as a master of the craft of boxing and as someone who easily would have beaten Joe Louis. Thing is, Ali beat all comers during his first reign as champion and did it with ease. What more could you ask of a champion? Because, I don't think it would be fair to say he ducked anyone.
Yes, Sonny Liston was beaten twice by Ali. But if you watch the first fight, Liston did as well as anyone that Ali fought. Sonny was missing with alot of punches but he also was hitting Ali with the left jab quite frequently. Actually at the time of the stoppage the scoring was closer than most of the other opponents Ali had faced. Perhaps a younger 1958 version of Liston could handle the great technician Ali of 1967. It would have been interesting.
Hater :good I'm so sorry that Liston cleaned out the best of his era, beat all kinds of different styles, and never ducked anyone. I guess that just doesn't stack up compared to other heavyweight champions :roll:
the one opponent liston will always have trouble with is ali.. i think highly of liston (top 5 hw for me) and h2h maybe even top 3. but against ali ?/ never. the slower 70ties ali there liston has a good chance against but the ali with lightning speed always beats sonny