I´d question Ray´s advantage in ring gineralship. Roy was a pretty good ring general himself, if there is such an advantage it isn´t big enough to make a difference in this fight.
Ring Generalship is such a vague term. I would consider it the ability to out think your opponent, make the fight go at your pace, technical skills, know what the judges are looking for etc. Sorry but I have to disagree, I would say Leonard had a huge advantage in Ring Generalship. Roy never won a fight where he did not have a physical advantage. As soon as his reflexes and speed slowed down Roy became ordinary. If he was truly a master at ring generalship he would have been able to rely less on physical gifts and use his head to win some fights later. He would have been more like Bernard Hopkins. His past prime career shows exactly what he was lacking.
Jones has the physical attributes to compete H2H with pretty much anyone from 160 through to 175, with not many that I'd bet the house on to beat Roy convincingly, provided of course that he boxed to his strengths. Ray was a natural 147 and although, IMO, a greater fighter, regardless of catchweight, I cannot see how Ray beats a prime Roy with two healthy hands. Roy hits much harder, is naturally a lot bigger come fight night, whilst Ray was a superior technician and could possibly set up good countering opportunities - I don't think he'd be able to set up enough traps and capitalise and with Ray behind on the cards, I cannot see Ray walking Roy down ala Hearns. I see the outcome lying in answering the question of what can Ray do to stop Roy establishing his rhythm and disrupt Ray's own ... I'm not sure that I can answer that question, without more careful deliberation - I'm probably going to use it as an excuse to watch some tape . P4P, Ray is more complete, I don't think that's questionable, IMO. H2H, it's likely that Ray picks up a maximum of 5 - 6 rounds over 15, perhaps 4 or 5 over 12. I think due to punching power and a bigger killer instinct, the other Sugar Ray has a much better chance of defeating Roy in a H2H, and I'm not talking about Mr Seales.
I believe Leonard is overall the greater fighter, for sure. But if you're matching two greats at their natural weights, and one naturally has 15-20 pounds on the other, than you'd have to favor the bigger dude. I mean was Hagler truly greater than Duran? I think many people would say not, but he was fighting at the best weight and Roberto was 20 pounds or more over his ideal weight. Leonard was amazing though, and it's conceivable that he could find a miraculous way to beat Jones. But given that I feel Hagler actually beat Ray, it's probably safest to say that Jones would take a decision.
even at middle leonard would beat jones by sd, leonard was simply in other league. he was a warrior and he faced warriors. he had more heart than jones, jones would need more than to be a clown in the ring and his natural speed. leonard would find the way. he had better chin,great reflexes,better stamina,better footwork and more heart.
Of course this sentence was meant in the context of the first sentence. Not that hard to figure out sinde it makes not much sense putting a mw in with a lhw.
SRL of 1982 was still a natural 147 to 154 pounder, while Royale "With Cheese" Jones of 1993 / 1994 was 160 to 168 pounds... Jones was too big for Leonard in a time machine... :deal MR.BILL
PFP i rate Leonard higher than Jones but in a HTH matchup Jones takes this.. Say they fight at middle and id pick Jones to win and probably by Knockout. I thought this was a fantasy pfp matchup say Leonard welter version vs Jones SM or MW version. Now thats a tough call. Jones was more dominating but he never fought a line up of ATG as Leonard did.. Leonard more proven so PFP HTH ill go with Leonard.
I'd say the same thing could be said of Leonard. I don't remember him beating an opponent he didn't have at least one clear physical advantage over. I'd agree though, that Jones ring generalship was more adapted to, and therefore dependent on, his physical abilities. But that doesn't matter here since we're talking prime versions. At his best Roy's ring generalship was perfect for getting the most out of his abilities.
I don't understand the "prime for prime" in this thread. Roy wasn't prime beneath MW and Leonard wasn't prime above 154. Their best weights were 167 and 148 respectively, so there's quite a size difference. At MW Jones beats the crap out of any MW version of Leonard, though. Leonard's chances would certainly improve at 154, but I haven't seen any of Jones' fights at this weight so can't say with any certainity how it would pan out.
roy wins this one by kayo roy has a much better all round arsenal and would use all these tools to his advantage:yep:think
No he hasn't. The other way around if anything. He would beat Leonard because of his advantages in size, speed and power.