Muhammad Ali vs Cleveland Williams

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Il Duce, Jan 13, 2011.


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  1. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    November 14, 1966

    Regarded as Muhammad Ali's finest performance in the ring.
    Ali, as possibly the best he could be, in age, condition and mental sharpness.
    Fast punching and hard-hitting, and elusive as ever.

    Though it is considered his best fight, was Cleveland Williams really a worthy opponent, or good enough fighter to challenge for the
    World Heavyweight Championship, against a fighter at the pinnacle of
    his fighting capability.

    Held at the Houston Astrodome, and in Cleveland Williams home-base area.
    Were there other fighters who deserved a Title Shot, or was Cleveland Williams chosen, as a result for sympathy for his comeback attempt, after a life-threatening and career ending gun-shot wound.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 13, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 13, 2011
    #1
  2. bigG

    bigG Well-Known Member Full Member

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    i just watched this yesterday and it was ali at his viscious, stingin gbest form sure, but i had always been told williams was well on the slide by this time..still, ali toys with the big cat
     
    bigG, Jan 13, 2011
    bigG, Jan 13, 2011
    #2
  3. mister

    mister Active Member Full Member

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    at the time cleveland was indeed a worthy foe for ali and it was the way ali used his ring skill and sharp punches that would of had any heavyweight looking like he has just been schooled ali fought a fight that had him using sharp stunning accurate jabs one two combinations that were hitting the mark with ease ali was perhaps on that night floating like a butterfly and stinging like a bee:yep:think
     
    mister, Jan 13, 2011
    mister, Jan 13, 2011
    #3
  4. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Cleveland Williams was dangerous, but was he still dangerous.

    His record was 65-5-1 (52 KO's),
    but was he completely recovered from the horrific gun-shot wound that happened back in late-1964, that damaged his leg muscles.

    Since coming back in February 1966, Cleveland had 4-bouts, and all wins, but
    against very weak opponents.
    The pre-fight reports were, that his leg muscles were still weak and he was stiff-legged.
    Oh, he could still punch with the brutal left-hook, but his mobility was limited.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 13, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 13, 2011
    #4
  5. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes Williams way way past it. It was a great performance from Muhammad,though by far from his greatest victory.
     
    Stevie G, Jan 13, 2011
    Stevie G, Jan 13, 2011
    #5
  6. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    In fairness to Cleveland Williams, he was still bothered by an injury to his hip,
    and his left hand had fluid on the knuckles days before the fight.

    Also, there was a major dispute over Williams contract, and even at the weigh-in
    he was threatened with an injunction to stop the fight.

    Cleveland Williams fight purse was $44,449,,,,,after things got cleared up two-weeks later, he took home $7471.

    His manager, Hugh 'Bimbo' Benbow told Cleveland Williams to fight slow, and take it
    easy for 5-Rounds.
    Muhammad Ali came out fast and stung Cleveland early in the 2nd Round, and
    Williams later stated, 'that he just never recovered'
     
    Il Duce, Jan 13, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 13, 2011
    #6
  7. mrbassie

    mrbassie Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Compare the video to say the Liston Williams fights, you'd be forgiven for thinking that it's not even the same person.
     
    mrbassie, Jan 13, 2011
    mrbassie, Jan 13, 2011
    #7
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  8. combatesdeboxeo

    combatesdeboxeo Guest

    the best hw that i saw ever is the ali who faced liston in 1965 and the ali who faced big cat in 1966.
     
    combatesdeboxeo, Jan 13, 2011
    combatesdeboxeo, Jan 13, 2011
    #8
  9. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    combat,,,,

    What did you actually see in 1965,,,,,,,,,,:admin
     
    Il Duce, Jan 13, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 13, 2011
    #9
  10. combatesdeboxeo

    combatesdeboxeo Guest

    sorry sorry, i wanted to say 64, ali(clay) vs liston 1.
    the second fight was a circus
     
    combatesdeboxeo, Jan 13, 2011
    combatesdeboxeo, Jan 13, 2011
    #10
  11. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    i honestly believe any heavyweight in history who stepped in the ring with ali that nite woulda been beat. his speed and movement was in a class of his own.
     
    groove, Jan 13, 2011
    groove, Jan 13, 2011
    #11
  12. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali was bursting with energy in a hostile Astrodome supporting the hometown challenger. No less than four double shuffles were on display. Joe Louis had Max Baer for a physical peak, and Ali had Big Cat. Muhammad's energy level was not quite the same for Folley and Terrell, despite being fully psyched for Ernie. With Williams, he was simply in "The Zone."
     
    Duodenum, Jan 13, 2011
    Duodenum, Jan 13, 2011
    #12
  13. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Duo,

    In 'The Big Cats' previous 4-fights, he was not the 'so-called' Big Cat,
    he was labeled 'The Little Kitty'.

    Tod Herring
    Sonny Moore
    Mel Turnbow
    Ben Black

    The 1966 Cleveland Williams was not the 1960 thru 1964 Big Cat.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 13, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 13, 2011
    #13
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Apparently, Ali's camp were not keen on matching him with Cleveland Williams, until a representative of Williams' camp brought a photo of "The Big Cat" taken not long after he'd be shot, showing Williams very ill and at 158 pounds. It help convinced Chris Dundee that Williams was a safe fight.

    Brilliant performance by Ali though. Superb speed, accuracy, and agility, and hitting with good power too.

    It's kinda sad seeing Williams like that though.
     
    Unforgiven, Jan 13, 2011
    Unforgiven, Jan 13, 2011
    #14
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    While Williams was undoubtedly a shell of his former self in hindsight, a fighter does not loose their ranking for getting shot in the gut.

    In terms of the division at the time, the fight made sense. Williams was a nbame fighter of substantive ranking. There was also an issue that Williams had been long overdue a title shot.
     
    janitor, Jan 13, 2011
    janitor, Jan 13, 2011
    #15
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