If Frazier could beat Ali....why can't Tyson? Just sayn....

Is it assumed that Tyson is better than Frazier?

 

so tysons better than fraizer

this is news to me

 

Tyson and Frazier, despite being short and bobbing and weaving are different stylistically. Frazier was one-handed and smaller, but also more of an inside fighter so could do more once he got past Alis jab. Tyson was capable of dropping heavy shots at close, but operated best between mid-close range. Somewhere where Ali would boss with his jab, combinations setting up lateral movement, repeat. Ali has too good of a jab, too good of a chin, and too good powers of recovery for Tyson to stop hi
, and is too fast of hand and feet for Tyson to feasibly outwork him. I'd give Evander a better shot at beating Ali to be honest.

That wasn't the best Ali.

 

Frazier didn't beat a "prime Ali".

 

And Foreman didn't beat a "prime Frazier"

 

Does anyone else agree that Tyson wouldn't stand a chance against Holyfield?

A mate of mine simply won't have it......

 

I also think that Tyson doesn't last over 15. Tyson had a top-notch chin, but Alis headhunting would make up for his lack of big dig and see him chip away at 'Kid Dynamite' over 15. Tyson, ever the historian and shocked at being given this opportunity to fight the version that smashed poor Cleveland Williams up (by a nutter with a time machine no less) capitulates late, taking too many shots and wilting back to the ropes where Ali avoids his last few desperate bombs and flurries him to a ref' stoppage.

Tyson-Joe Louis is 50-50. Tyson phenomenal speed, power and offensive prowess could well see him dispatch Louis, dropped by lesser punchers but alway showing good powers of recovery, early.

But as I say, Mike someone had the tendency to languish on the inside. If he does this, there's the chance the greatest puncher of all time hits with a short three-punch combo that, iron-chinned or not does Tyson a serious disservice. I see Mike overpowering Louis, but in anyone has a chance of pulling Tysons game on him it's Louis IMO, the greatest P4P finisher of all time IMO.

One fighter for whom I think Joe Frazier is a hood comparison to Tyson is George Forwman. In terms of size and attaling sensibilities, Tyson is going to be wading into Georges zone here. He may well have some early success with his ability to slip shots and bob into a position to launch a lunging left hook or a bulldozer right, and he will land some lovely combos on George that might drop him early. But George was solid, with an underrted jab that could mask the bombs that were coming. I see him smashing up Tyson inside seven rounds, in a contender for greatest HWahoot out ever.

Tyson would tear through Tunney, Dempsey, Johnson and Wlad IMO.

 

Prime Vs Prime (and the best Evander is hard to pinpoint) I say Holy is too durable, too tough, too well-rounded and sharp a counter puncher for 'Kid Dynamite'. He beats him on points in a great fight, where Evander is stung early and fights back, dominating from the 7th round onwards, despite flashes of beastliness from Mike.

 

...

 

tyson is stupidly over rated , he was a sensation but never did anything that warrants all the praise he gets even to this day

alot of his fans simply cant accept that during the 80,s / 90's they got caught up in tyson mania and cant let it go , so they keep harping on about what he "could do" rather than what he actually did . he was very good but you cant just give the guy a pass

 

No, I'd say Prime Tyson, as short as it was, was one of te most dynamic and complete Heavyweights that ever fought. His resume in this time, and a few performances post-Douglas, is very, very impressive indeed. He could well beat all the fighters we're mentioning in this thread, despite our analysis. He was that good.

For the record I forgot Jeffries from my list of past HW champs that Tyson would brutalise.

 

Tyson when he first won the title I think would take Holyfield. He was quick, strong but also patient and technically very sharp. He didn't waste energy being overly aggressive. Holy stayed dedicated and got stronger as he went on, while Mike deteriorated both physically and mentally.

 

I just think that Tyson, who was all the things you said, would be up against a guy who was equally a freak of nature as he was. Evander is one of the sharpest and accurate fighters I have ever seen, adaptable and as hard to shift as they come. Whilst Mikes mind was fully focused in his (very) early 20's, a Prime Evander (which I imagine as an amalgam of his late 80's, early 90's work, he was patchy as the 90's progressed but adapted, wherea he was more energetic and varied against the likes of Douglas and Layer Bowe, the spirited Evander from their first fight not having to deal with a jab like Bowes would be a good choice actually, gutsy, and rounded) against say, the Tyson that crushed Berbick, would be able to drag him into waters he never experienced until late in his career ( getting hugged by Bonecrusher doesn't count) because of his versatility.

Holy would take it down the stretch in a fiercely competitive fight IMO. Then again, Mike could finish where Bert Cooper couldn't :yep