Barney Felix (3rd Man the Ring; Liston vs. Clay)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Il Duce, Jan 16, 2011.


  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Great stuff again, Il Duce. :good
    Where did you acquire this account of Mr.Felix's ?
     
  2. alexvoce

    alexvoce Guest

    very interesting il duce.
     
  3. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    An article that was printed in the 'Newark Evening News',
    Barney Felix was from New Jersey.
    The article was printed in 1968..

    No one had interviewed Barney Felix up to that point, something he always thought as
    odd.

    I'll post more if it.

    Crazy stuff, as he mentions that Chris Dundee was also the big wrestling promoter down in Miami Beach.
    Dundee promoted wrestling events on Friday nights at The Convention Hall on Friday 2/21 and Friday 2/28,
    as well as events at The Auditorium.

    Barney Felix, said the 'feeling-in-the-air' was that the fight had a wrestling atmosphere to it.
    Especially the 'liniment-in the-eye's bit',,,,,and old 'wrestling gag'.
     
  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Thanks.
    Really appreciate your efforts.

    Yes, a lot of the stuff Felix says are the same things I see when I watch the fight. He offers some great new info/opinion too.
    Definitely this match was viewed as more of a "promotion" than a "fight", by many who watched it, plus the build-up and aftermath.

    It's funny that it's almost gone down in boxing history as a "classic". More than one commentator of the time cringed at the spectacle of Clay trying to quit, and Liston flat-out beating him to it ! Liston out-quitted Clay. :lol:
     
  5. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    ,,Thanks,,,,,,,,Mr. Un and alexvoce.

    More from Barney Felix,

    During the 5th round, Sonny continued to force the action.
    After about 40-seconds or so, Cassius Clay was fine, as his eyes were clear, and he was
    not blinking.

    Cassius Clay was fine, and Sonny was landing some good jabs, so if there was any
    foreign substance on Listons gloves, where did it go?

    From the mid-way point in the round (1:30 thru to the 2:30 mark), Sonny landed his best punches.
    Though they did not carry real power, they were scoring, and Clay was back-peddaling throughout.

    As the latter half of the round progressed, Sonny started to slow down, and his arms appeared heavy.
    Then his footwork slowed down, and Sonny was moving like a statue.

    Then near the last 25-seconds of the round, Sonny attempted to throw a left lead to Clay's head, but
    Clay side-stepped quickly to his right. Sonny then stopped in attempting to throw the punch as he was coming forward,
    and he nearly stumbled and fell.

    At that moment, I could tell Sonny was having leg problems.
     
  6. prime

    prime BOX! Writing Champion Full Member

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    Thanks for this Mr. Duce.

    But I will stop reading right here. To describe Liston's early-Round-5 punches so is: a) dishonest b) faulty recall, hence little value in this man's narration. I prefer the film.
     
  7. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Barney Felix,

    After the 5th Round, there were no complaints of 'eye burning' issues from Cassius Clay's corner.

    Later, I found out that Mark Jannsen did go over to Sonny Liston's corner to take a
    look, but he found nothing.

    After 5 Rounds, I had Sonny Liston ahead 3-2 in Rounds. I was thinking of a possible
    10-8 round for Liston, as he did dominate the round, and actually staggered
    Cassius with a good left upper-cut mid-way through the round, but Clay did hold his own for the last 25-seconds.

    As for the later complaint of problems with Sonny Liston and his left shoulder, I had a clear view into his corner and could hear what they were saying, and there was no immediate concern or problem.
    I never saw an ice-pack on his shoulder or anyone working on it.

    What I did notice, simply was, that Sonny was just getting tired, arm-weary and heavy-legged.

    And in Cassius Clay, he was the one breathing with an open mouth. But he did have the better legs, and
    still had the quicker reflexes.

    There was one instance, near the end of the round, as both fighters were near the ropes, Clay pulled back with
    his hands by his side, and Sonny had a wide-open shot for a big left hook, as Clay was within range.
    But, Sonny couldn't let go with the punch.

    Looking back, maybe Sonny did pull something in his shoulder, very late in the 5th Round. That was the only time
    something could have happened, based on my observations in the ring with these guys.
     
  8. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Before the 6th Round, I did look into Sonny Liston's corner, to see if anything out of the ordinary was going on, and I didn't see anything, other than Joe Pollino working
    on the cut under Sonny's left eye.

    Jack Nilon, Sonny's manager was talking to Sonny, while Willie Reddish was rubbing
    Listons left shoulder.

    I looked over to Clay's corner, but I was blocked from a clear view. But it was apparent that there was no issue with his eye's anymore.

    Cassius Clay was up quick, before the round started, as Sonny was still on his stool.
     
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I think Felix's account matches exactly what you will see on the film.
     
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    this is very intresting. mr felix describes it perfectly, i know he was there but I am impressed with such detailed recolections without the advantage of studying film to remind himself. I imagine in 1968 he did not have a VCR to reveiw it?
     
  11. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm sure Barney Felix must have seen the replay of the fight more than several times,
    to refresh his view.
    But, I'm sure he was careful in the words he used in the newspaper interview,
    because he was still an active referee.

    He did shed some light on issues, such as the illegal substance. And his thought, that it came from Cassius Clay's own corner, to delay the start of the 5th Round.

    Later in the interview, he stated, Cassius Clay's eyes were blinking a little, but they were clear. And usually, when you have something in your eyes, they will tear up to cleanse themselves, or become red due to irritation.

    Clay's eyes had neither.
     
  12. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Interesting, Barney Felix seems to be a bit unsure of whether Liston had an injured shoulder or not. But a few years after the fight, Liston apparently claimed that it was Barney Felix who'd been treating his shoulder in the days before the fight .....

    [url]http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers?id=TthaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=aWwDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6895,1327852&dq=barney+felix+sonny+liston&hl=en[/url]
     
  13. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I think that a referee's veiwpoint is gold dust for fights like this, it was a strange one.

    It is a wonder that his opinion is not well known.

    what does he say about the last completed round? liston looks tired on film and a sitting duck by then.
     
  14. mrbassie

    mrbassie Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thanks so much for posting this, real food for thought. Looks more suspicious than ever to me.
     
  15. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    MR. UN,

    In the article, Barney Felix does not make any statement about working on
    Sonny Listons shoulder or giving him massage treatment before the bout.

    Though Barney Felix was also a Physical Education teacher, he may have worked in
    the Health and Fitness Spa at either the Casablanca Hotel in South Beach, or the Fountainebleau Hotel
    in Miami Beach.

    He had been in Florida, since 1963.

    I'm wondering, if Barney Felix was the boxing-fitness therapist that treated Sonny back in March 1963, when Liston was preparing for Floyd Patterson, before the bout was cancelled and re-scheduled.