Barney Felix (3rd Man the Ring; Liston vs. Clay)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Il Duce, Jan 16, 2011.


  1. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,056
    26
    May 16, 2006
    interesting reading his view but to claim clay was acting blind or cuz of liston's punches is BS. noticed in round 4 clay's face was resting on liston's left shoulder - wondering if this is when he first got the solution in his eyes.
     
  2. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,972
    45
    Nov 18, 2010
    Groove,

    The article was Barney Felix's view during the moment of the fight, not later on,
    when the film was reviewed and analyzed.

    He stated that he thought Clay's corner was trying to delay the start of the
    5th Round.
    That was after Dr. Robbins found no issue in Cassius Clay's corner.

    Going by the film, both Angelo Dundee and Bundini Brown are both in the ring, when the bell rang starting the round.
     
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,579
    Nov 24, 2005
    I'm thinking Liston might have been mistaken, otherwise Felix's account doesn't make sense - he might not want to mention his proximity to Liston in the days immediately pre-fight, but he wouldn't omit knowledge of the injury entirely, surely.

    It just adds up to another oddity or mystery surrounding the fight. Of which there are many.
     
  4. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,972
    45
    Nov 18, 2010
    UN,

    That sure would have been strange for the Championship Bout Referee
    treating one of the combatants, only several days before the bout.

    You would think if Liston had any injury, you would think his camp would want to keep it quiet.

    Plus, I have to check my files, as Sonny had his own personal massage
    therapist their in Miami Beach.
     
  5. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,056
    26
    May 16, 2006
    fair enough but no way was clay in any trouble in round 4 to even consider quitin or acting blind. maybe at the time he thought clay was not that tough after the cooper fight. later he would've realized ali was a tough ******* and wouldn't quit or act blind cuz he wanted out of a fight. people who still spout this nonsense should take a hard look at themselves.
     
  6. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,714
    3,456
    Jan 6, 2007
    I always wondered about the "Victory" dance Clay goes into just before the start of the seventh round.

    It is kinda like : "Well, Act I is over......now on to ACT II".

    Interesting that the cards add up to a "dead-even" fight...pretty good for a "re-match" at a later date.
     
  7. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,972
    45
    Nov 18, 2010
    grove,

    I did replay the tape, and later in the 4th round, Liston did land a good lead right
    square on Cassius Clay's chin, and followed with a pretty good left hook.

    I'm guessing that was the combination that Barney Felix was talking about, and maybe in his view within the ring and close view of Clay's eyes, it may have indicated that he was a bit shaken.

    Remember, it was Cassius Clay who showed some reluctance in starting the 5th Round,
    and the Doctor at Ringside had found no problem in Clay's corner, with any foreign
    substance.
     
  8. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,972
    45
    Nov 18, 2010
    Barney Felix,

    As a Referee, people forget, that I have the best view in the house. I'm so close, I can feel the punches, and see the expressions in the fighter eyes. I can also tell if
    their strength has wilted.

    When Round 6 started, Sonny came out with his hands higher than normal, and he looked somewhat re-freshed.
    But that changed after about 30-seconds, as Clay started shooting jab after jab.

    Sonny was so stiff, and immobile, and he made it easy for Clay.
    Sonny offered no real attempt at an offense, and just absorbed long range jabs.

    While Clay was scoring with jabs, Sonny looked like he was trying to load-up on one shot.
    But that opportunity never came, as Clay maintained a safe distance.

    Sonny's left hand was weak, and for the first time since early in the 3rd round, Liston actually backed up.
    There was no sting in Sonny's punches, other than maybe 2 good long rights to the body that scored.

    But, looking back, the last good punch of the fight, was Sonny landing a decent left jab, just before the bell.

    As Round 6 ended, it was clearly Clay's best round.
    At the bell, each fighter walked back to their respective corners.
    I saw nothing in each fighters face to indicate victory or defeat.
    I excpected a 7th round.
    Clay had a good round, and won it.
    Liston had a poor round, and lost it, but he was not being battered.
     
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,579
    Nov 24, 2005
    I think it's pretty well established that Clay was trying to quit, and Angelo Dundee forced him to carry on.
     
  10. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,972
    45
    Nov 18, 2010
    Barney Felix,

    After Round 6, I waited for the fighters to go their corners, and I went and got the Scoring Cards from
    Bernie Lovett and Gus Jacobson.

    As I was waiting in my neutral corner, for the whistle to clear the cornermen, there was alot of activity in Sonny Listons corner.
    Just as the round whistle sounded, Cassius Clay leaped up off his stool, and started bouncing up and down.

    I looked over to Sonny's corner, and Willie Reddish and Joe Polllino were still in the ring.
    I wanted to say 'hurry up', but his corner liked to wait to the last second, before
    clearing out.

    As the seconds went by, I started to say,, 'hurry up',,,, but it was apparent that something was wrong.
    As the bell rang, I yelled,,,,, 'get out',,,, at Willie Reddish.
    But Willie turned towards me as I was walking fast towards the corner, and he said,,,,, 'Thats it'
    And he made a swiping gesture with his hands.

    For that instance, I would never have believed a World Champion not to come out
    to continue fighting, not for the Heavyweight Championship of the World.

    As I got to the corner, I leaned in to ask Sonny if he wanted to continue,
    and just then Willie said,,,,, 'I asked him, but he just can't go on anymore'

    And Jack Nilon, Sonny's manager, said,,, 'His arm snapped out of it's socket'

    I looked at Sonny, and he looked back at me.

    He didn't say a word.

    That's all I needed to know.
     
  11. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,972
    45
    Nov 18, 2010
    Barney Felix,

    The look on Sonny Listons's face told me he didn't want to go on.

    As I left corner, Cassius Clay and Angelo Dundee and the rest of Clay's corner-group were already in the ring celebrating.

    By rule, I had to raise his hand as the winner, and I don't think he ever remembered
    me doing it.

    With bedlam in the ring, I walked back over to my neutral corner.
    I was shocked that Sonny quit.
    The fight was even, and though Liston was outclassed in the 6th round, Sonny
    still had energy.

    To my surprise, no one came up to me for an interview or statement. I still had the round scorecards from Bernie Lovett and Gus Jacobson.

    I found Vice Chairman Carl Gardner, and he couldn't believe it.
    He asked me what I thought, and I said,
    "Willie wanted Sonny to go on,,,,,, but Sonny told him no"

    Then Carl Gardner said, 'This isn't good, not one bit'.
     
  12. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,972
    45
    Nov 18, 2010
    MR. UN,
    That Pittsburg Gazette article about Sonny Liston.

    The $100,000 that Sonny mentioned, was a guarantee, that if Sonny
    postponed the May 25th bout, Liston would have had to forfeit that
    amount of money of his fight purse to Cassius Clay.

    Of course, that throws another twist into that fight.

    People forget, it was Sonny that pulled an injury claim, when he was scheduled to
    fight Floyd Patterson in Miami Beach, on April 4th, 1963.

    And he was able to cash-in on the insurance policy, something like $45,000.
    Not sure how it was cut-up though.
     
  13. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,056
    26
    May 16, 2006
    [yt]6cgz25SHUA8[/yt]
     
  14. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,972
    45
    Nov 18, 2010
    Very good picture,,,,,,

    Dr. Alexander Robbins, after examining Sonny Liston in his corner, before Round 7.
    'Sonny Liston strained his left shoulder muscle. He cannot lift his left arm'

    Then while in the ring corner, Jack Nilon, Sonny's manager, then wrapped Liston's left shoulder with athletic tape.

    Then the excuses flew,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    Sonny Liston's personal physician, Dr. Robert Bennett never gave a result for a complete shoulder evaluation.
     
  15. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,579
    Nov 24, 2005

    Dundee confirms that Clay was trying to quit, and it's quite clear on the film too.