Plausible Reasons for Sonny Liston's Tank Job

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Il Duce, Jan 20, 2011.


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  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    It missed by miles.
     
    Unforgiven, Jan 20, 2011
    Unforgiven, Jan 20, 2011
    #31
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Ali had more reason to fear assassination in regards to the Malcolm situation.
     
    Unforgiven, Jan 20, 2011
    Unforgiven, Jan 20, 2011
    #32
  3. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Duo,

    Just where would the NOI have done it. Not in Dedham, Mass. or at the Mansion House in Poland Spring, Maine.

    Sonny had security 'up the wazuu', he had nothing to be afraid of.

    If the NOI wanted to pick-off Sonny, they could have gotten to him on one of his
    late-night ramps through downtown Denver.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 20, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 20, 2011
    #33
  4. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Mainstream America despised him. Any loon with a gun could have taken a shot at him from any place in the social spectrum. "Reason to fear" is one thing, actual fear another. He held the championship, a reasonable position of power itself. He also had a big mouth. The NOI gained more by his holding the title than he did by being a member, and he converted to Sunni Islam in 1975.
     
    Duodenum, Jan 20, 2011
    Duodenum, Jan 20, 2011
    #34
  5. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You mean after Lewiston, if Sonny didn't perform down to their preferences? Malcolm had a measure of security too, and a family to protect. He still knew he was going to get scratched.
     
    Duodenum, Jan 20, 2011
    Duodenum, Jan 20, 2011
    #35
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Well, apparently no one seriously cared enough to actually make an attempt on Ali's life.

    Liston was no Malcolm X, I don't think he ever mistook himself for Malcolm either, so would he really believe the NOI were gunning for him ?

    Also, he was a sitting duck there in the ring. Seems like an odd way to avoid being in the firing line.
    Security was all over the fight, amid fears Malcolm's men would have a pop at Ali.
     
    Unforgiven, Jan 20, 2011
    Unforgiven, Jan 20, 2011
    #36
  7. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Liston had his heart broken after he won the title and nobody really gave a sh*t about him.

    Even the President of the U.S. was against him.

    He had fought some tough contenders on the way up, was uneducated, had done his best for the "the other guys", so he took his share and bailed.
     
    Longhhorn71, Jan 20, 2011
    Longhhorn71, Jan 20, 2011
    #37
  8. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think we're jumping all over the place here.

    I'm focusing on the 'tank job' in Lewiston, Maine. May 25, 1965.

    As for the fight, private security was everywhere. Additional Police from Boston were
    brought in.
    Private security was provided.
    Sonny Liston had U.S. Marshalls by his side, 24 hour a day protection.

    The FBI had representatives their, as well as undercover agents who were staying in the
    Mansion House Hotel, and at the Poland Spring Motel.

    Nobody was getting to Sonny Liston.

    Also, Sonny Liston had a personal body-guard, a former policeman, Lowell Powell
    by his side 24 hours a day.

    Damn, even the Hotel owner, Saul Feldman had security with private guards with guard dogs, walking the perimeter of the hotel property.

    Nobody saw anything out of the ordinary up their.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 20, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 20, 2011
    #38
  9. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    1958 in Chicago,,,,,,,,,

    Sonny's 'star' was on the rise.

    4 out 5 bouts fought their. January thru August 1958.
    The Chicago 'advisory' board was involved..........
     
    Il Duce, Jan 20, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 20, 2011
    #39
  10. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Many of the punches missed, or lacked snap.

    That arm-punch fake body-punch flurry at the start of the 5th Round,
    could have won an Academy Award for Simulated Punching.

    Those punches made no sound.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 20, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 20, 2011
    #40
  11. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tony Kwik,,,,,,,

    Simple, who do you think was the Main Promoter for the
    Muhammad Ali vs. Floyd Patterson Championship Fight (11/22/65)

    Inter-Continental Promotions, Inc.
    Robert. A. Nilon, Vice President
    Sonny Liston (Former President)

    Sports Vision, Inc. of course was the closed circuit broadcaster,,,,,,again.

    Talk about money,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    The Local promoters at The Las Vegas Convention Center (Mel Geb and Jack Doyle)

    After the Sonny Liston vs. Muhammad Ali II fight, there were no other big fights in
    the future with Sonny Liston.

    Floyd Patterson was the logical choice, but no one on this planet wanted a
    Liston vs Patterson III fight,,,,,or for that matter a Liston vs. Ali III.

    but,,,,,,,a Muhammad Ali vs Floyd Patterson,,,,,,,,,,was Gold!!!

    The numbers were staggering.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 20, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 20, 2011
    #41
  12. psychoshane

    psychoshane Active Member Full Member

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    A story i heard is that Liston was threatened by th Black Muslims, who Ali had recently joined. They told Liston if he won there would be a bullet waiting for him afterwards. So he decided the HW title wasn't worth dying for. Maybe the story is true and maybe its bull****. I don't know for sure.
     
    psychoshane, Jan 20, 2011
    psychoshane, Jan 20, 2011
    #42
  13. Vince Voltage

    Vince Voltage Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Two things: Liston didn't have his ass handed to him in the first fight. It was actually fairly close, with Clay fresher though and able to outlast the older guy.

    Second thing is a question: So, if none of the behind the scenes crap had happened, and a well-prepared, well-motivated Liston had fought in Lewiston, who'd have won?
     
    Vince Voltage, Jan 20, 2011
    Vince Voltage, Jan 20, 2011
    #43
  14. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Psycho,

    Too far-fetched,,,,,though thats what people liked to believe.

    Complete publicity gag,,,,fueled by Harry Conrad the fight publicist.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 20, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 20, 2011
    #44
  15. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sonny Liston, simply put was a 'money guy'.
    If the deal was right, and the money was good, he would take it.

    The World Heavyweight Championship, though a prestigous title, didn't mean that much too him.
    He was generally a quiet guy, and the Title only brought more attention to him.

    As for Black Muslims threatening him,,,,,why.
    And if they did, then I guess they would have threatened every other fighter who
    walked into the ring with Ali.

    The 'big money' was in the closed circuit broadcast feeds, and theatre operations,
    not in Sonny Liston and 'live gates'.

    On the Muhammad Ali vs. Floyd Patterson fight in Las Vegas 11/22/65.

    Inter-Continental Promotions (which Sonny Liston owned a % of) walked off
    with $1,125,000.........for that promotion.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 21, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 21, 2011
    #45
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