Best Mover/Footwork/Mobility by weightclass

Actually, throughout the first fight, Liston had some success in going to the body. We know in hindsight that Ali had great capacity to the bodyshot - it was the headshots that Liston was missing Ali with, most notably the big Liston jab. Whilst Ali certainly outclassed him, it was by no means, the total mythical annihilation that some revisionists would make it out to be. Yes, the dancing meant that Liston couldn't hit him TO THE HEAD, but like Louis said, Ali could be, and was, hit to the body. This is why I think that Ali's best served to dance and score, as well as box around the jab and something that he did extremely well, footwork wise and punching wise in his prime, that he didn't do so much in comeback career, for obvious reasons, I guess, was the good jab to the body.

 

Although, not usually at the very top of the list because not as 'flashy' as others, can anyone convince me that Napoles didn't have exceptionally brilliant footwork? It's not hard to see why he was so avoided earlier on, is it?

 

Napoles's footwork is usually pretty highly lauded. Up there with the very best of all time, in my opinion. The definition of economical.

 

How do you guys rate Kid Gavilan´s footwork ?
Offensively ? Defensively ?

 

Nice.

May I say:

"Flash" for the sake of flash only came with the Shuffle. What you call inefficiency, I simply call locomotion, which Ali resorted to when, as he said, he wasn't "ready to punch": he would regroup and resume scoring points, so, instead of giving his opponent a stationary target, he simply moved around the ring, always away from the opponent. This is only "wasting energy" if you are liable to run out of it. In Ali's case, he could keep it up for the distance, so he could afford it.

And this not being easily duplicable should not reflect poorly on Ali. It made him unique.

Ali's ring-center, wide-stanced punching mode was deadly, as Foreman, Lyle and Folley found out, and became the foundation for the style of another great: Larry Holmes.

 

It was pretty good in an all round sense, he'd work the middle of the ring with his footwork more so than being defensive or offensive minded. His footwork wasn't perfect or anything, but it was effective because of how confident and composed he was. For example, Gavilan calmly employs some lateral movement but crosses his legs (a mistake) but hits the target with a double jab and three bolo punches and shakes off whatever comes his way. For the most part his footwork was spot on. Rodriguez was better in the lateral movement department though,

 

It is highly lauded, but in my humble opinion, I do think that it should be used as 'THE' example of concise, efficient footwork.

That being said, I love the footwork of a Pep, Ali, SRR, Sweet Pete (despite him crossing his feet ), a Pretty Boy Floyd etc.

Although, he could be slightly following at times, I do love prime Hagler's footwork. I think it to be underrated; indeed, I think that Hagler's overall technical ability is underrated on the whole to be honest.

That's the thing ... it's the noncholance of the being "ready to punch" that I love about Ali. I often think he danced to show off the athletic talent to himself, the world and to actually psyche out his opponent. Imagine the psychological impact of a fighter with a loud mouth, that won't engage you, making you chase, punch and miss, only to be caught with sharp jabs and right hands, when he feels like "he's ready to punch". It's just from a technical point of view i.e. winning rounds on substance, there are times when his ego unnecessarily cost him.

If you want to see how effective the wide stance could be, ask Foreman, ask Chuvalo in the second fight. I can't remember what round it was, off the top of the head, but there's a sequence where Ali has him near the corner and just unloads on him. Chuvalo got his head snapped back with a great right ... he'll say it was a tip-tap punch, but I wouldn't want to get hit by that sequence of punches

 

Young Ali was like a peacock: he certainly was not shy about strutting his stuff in the ring. I wouldn't either, if I could do that.

Great description of the discouraging, psychological weight on the opponent of Ali's floating and stinging.

The only caveat I see in it is Ali's tendency --from the Olympics final to Big Cat Williams-- of dancing himself into corners. Potentially dangerous against a chasing foe, though it allowed him to show off even more by suddenly, a second later, appearing behind the opponent!

 

And against the ropes. This is actually one of the situations where he shows that he possessed orthodox skills in addition to his unorthodox style. When Ali danced into corners or against the ropes, he usually, weaved under punches, feinted one way, slipped the other and span his man around using angles. You can see it against Chuvalo, you can see him do it against Liston, against Williams and against London, amongst others. He'd almost invite the punch, because the opponent has been missing, where they think they'd find success, there's usually a headshot being thrown at Ali, which he slips or weaves under, pivoting out of the tight spot, with an angle to use his own defence. When he had the leg speed, he was rarely punished for it ... when the leg speed was gone in the second career, well, we know that he couldn't do what he used to to the same effect and thus, was punished for it much more, although, I'd temper that opinion with the fact that he was generally facing better opposition compared to his 60's career.

Ali clearly understood angling and pivoting as well as excellent range negotiation.

 

We agree again!

Ali's range negotiation (as you well put it) had one premise: "hit and not be hit." In this he was unique, choosing not to fight face-to-face, but preferring to stay out of range and come in only to score!

But, yes, the boxing fundamentals are there, foundation of his unique style: the angling and pivoting are certainly taught as classic maneuvers, though usually while standing in front of your opponent, not while dancing all over the ring!

Moving at the waist and turning the chin in away from the punch are classic moves, but not usually recommended while keeping your hands down!

But Ali knew boxing: watch him defend properly after Frazier nearly floors him in Round 11; he would lift his gloves up to his head in classic position at just the right time, and not a second before or after.

He even proved he could fight inside --and well!-- when forced to in Manila.

He could never do the wacky things he did without a profound knowledge of his craft, earned during untold hours in the gym.

He just did it all his way.

 

Great post as always teeto ! Thanks buddy :good
I agree with you about Rodriguez......

 

Sounds like a little known song sang by Sinatra.

Agreed and agreed, comrade! :good

 

Very good post. Let's see where I might disagree...

115: Tapia deserves a mention for his use of footowrk to transition from defense to offense. This became less apparent as he moved up in weight, but he was very, very good in this regard at this, his best weight.

126: Henry Armstrong for offensive footwork.

140: Pryor and Chavez for offensive footwork?

147: If you want to differentiate between strictly offensive and defensive footwork, you couldn't do much better than Napoles and Leonard, respectively.

175: Virgil Hill for strictly defensive footwork. Dwight Muhammad Qawi for offensive footwork. Although kinda slow, Spinks always seemed to gauge distance, and be in position to punch, so he deserves a mention, too.

Heavyweight: Ali and Tunney defensively, and Louis, Frazier, and Tyson all warrant mentions for offense.

 

I took the mover/footwork/mobility combo to include things like upper-body movement as well, not simply footwork. Either way, I couldn't put Pryor in simply because of his attrocious footwork, although he was a lot harder to time with his shifty upper body movement and punching angles than is often given credit for. For pure footwork he was one of the worst elite level fighters I've seen, probably. Technically horrendous, and is what often lead to those flash knockdowns in his opponent's favor.

I can't believe I forgot Napoles, though.atsch

 

You point to several instances where he used technically good footwork, though.

Just as Lora pointed out, I think he could do both. Liston I is an excellent example. In the first five rounds he utilizes his own specialized brand which no one should ever try to copy. He crosses his feet and retreats in straight lines, but gets away with it because of his amazing physical gifts and his great radar.

But in the sixth he starts to show his other side. In that round he circles Liston with a very controlled textbook kind of footwork, controlling distance at all times.

You can see the same pattern in many of his fights.

I've been harping on about him in recent times, but I think McCallum had a near perfect footwork. Mayweather is of course a good mention too, as is Hopkins. Roy Jones just for the things he could do. Robinson, of course. Pep... Well, I don't have any really surprising one to add here. Perhaps Bowe if we create superheavies as a new weight class.