Could Leonard beat a prime Hagler?

But that was a Leonard who had spent most of the last four years sitting on his ass (and doing coke) and who had never fought at MW before.

It's very hard to know what Leonard would have done had he stayed active. But it seems a pretty fair conclusion to say that he would have had a better chance against prime Hagler (had he decided to challenge him) than an inactive, coke snorting Leonard would have had.

This is what the debate is about.

 

Still a shabby decision by the judges in Las Vegas,

Does anyone have the scorecard tally.

Besides Round 1 and Round 2,,,,scored for Leonard, were any other rounds
unified in their scoring?

 

Yes, Leonard wasn't prime either and was f*cked after a few rounds, Hagler was made to look bad because he was facing Leonard instead of Anterfermo. Any version of Hagler has nightmares with Leonard's speed, movement, defense and generally trickery.

 

Does any one have concerns about whether a prime Hagler would've been a casualty of the 'celebrity' of Leonard?

The way that Hagler fought Duran was inexplicable, regardless of what Duran had done to Moore. This was Hagler and Duran had no business living with him at 160, as well as he did, in theory. Perhaps the significance of the occassion may have made Hagler tentative at the wrong times, increasing Leonard's chances?

 

I don't think it had anything to do with Hagler being tentative and everything to do with a more skillful opponent being in front of him

 

Hagler had a great amount of respect for Duran, which attritubes to why he fought such a cautious fight.

 

Yes, Duran was more skillful, but Hagler was the superior for conditioning, naturally stronger and bigger. There were times when he boxed cautiously, not unjustifiably so, but in hindsight, Hagler could've made the decision more decisive by pressing more, especially on occassions where it looked like Hagler let Duran off the leash.

I also think Hagler was tentative because Duran was a legend at the time and in light of what Duran did to Moore. Do you think that the Hagler/Petronelli corner showed Roberto too much respect during the fight? Regardless, he pulled out a clear win in my book over an admittedly very good fighter, indeed, a legend.

 

The more Hagler presses the more Duran counters him and maybe slips and counters as he could. They didn't know how well Duran's power had carried up and its fair to say it probably packed some wallop. So pressuring Duran is not necessarily the great strategy it sounds and it certainly didn't work for any bar Hearns

 

I didn't mean pressing as in walking Duran down. One of the best punches to hit a southpaw with is the right hand and yes, Duran found success with the right hand counter during the fight. There are times where Hagler rocked Duran with the jab and kept him quiet. I think at these times, the tide started to turn and Hagler need only increase the output. His jab, legs and defence were good enough for him to keep it disciplined and outbox Duran more decisively IMO.

I can't recall the round, but I remember Hagler seeming to take over towards the end of the round, with the impression being that he was now going to take over the fight completely, only to let Duran come back into it the very next round - sort of as if he let him off the leash.

I can understand the cautiousness for the start of the fight, it's just that, and perhaps this is wishful thinking and a tad dismissive of how good Duran really was, defensively and offensively, I just feel as if Hagler had too much for Duran and could've been more decisive. Perhaps my inkling's wrong. :huh

 

I'd like to bring up another question, assuming it hasn't been mentioned already.. If Hagler fought Leonard in their primes, where does it happen? Does Leonard bulk up once again to fight Hagler at 160, or does Marvin shed 15 Lbs to meet Ray at 144? Or do they meet somewhere in the middle, say at 154? And how do we make things so that there are no excuses after one beats the other?

 

:deal

 

I would assume it would be at middleweight because Hagler could not go any lower.

 

That's why I've so hard to see how easily most here write off Leonard's chances. A Leonard that had stayed active and grown into MW would be faster than Duran at that weight and stronger and more durable than Hearns. He would also have much better stamina than the Leonard Hagler faced in reality.

This Leonard would therefore in all likelihood be the most formidable opponent Hagler ever faced. If both are at the top of their game, I can't see anything but a close outcome. One that very well could be decided by tactics, as the actual one quite probably was.

 

Well, I thought the question was about "prime Leonard". That's the guy from 1981 or '82, the one who retired in '82. When Hagler was in his prime.
Not some imaginary Leonard that was even better than that.

If Leonard could beat Hagler in '82 or '83, he wouldn't have retired.

I think Leonard always planned to come back and challenge Hagler. Sure, inactivity and partying don't help, but i think he kept himself in good shape. Sitting on his ass and doing coke is probably an exaggeration.

 

There is a lot of speculation being made in this post. Are you saying that if Leonard had "felt" that he could have beaten Hagler around 1983, that he wouldn't have retired? Because the facts are that he left the game due to a torn retina injury sustained in the Bruce Finch fight, and not because he had doubts about beating another champion in a totally different weight class. Are you also saying that Ray purposely took nearly 5 years off with the pre-planned determination of one day, sporatically coming back to face a guy who in the mean time, had been actively beating the **** out of the best in the world? I find this hard to believe.