Darcy versus SRR

Research Dempsey and then get back to me and tell me he was within 1000 miles of New York in February and March of 1917.

 

Go back and re-read that passage. He says he never saw Darcy. He said he heard the story from some of his later handlers who were supposedly there. So once again, no primary source, just third hand hearsay from an old man 40+ years after the supposed events.

Mickey Walker always said he beat Greb up in a street fight. He was supposedly there, he should know right? Well, he didnt, he wasnt there, he was in a hospital getting his face stitched up from the numerous cuts Greb opened on him. Like I said, a lot of the great stories in boxing are false. If you wanna believe them thats fine but dont get made when people who do the legwork shoot holes in your stories.

 

The referee's decision and McAullife being out of condition (the same way Griffo was for most of his bouts in the US, with rare exceptions) are described/explained in details (Moore himself explaining it and giving numbers of punches he counted for each, and how he counted them, and why he ignored Griffo's "taps and slaps") in the NY newspapers at the time. Klompton is not needed for that. At least several people who watched the fight thought it should have been a draw, that it wasn't a robbery.

 

Yep...true. It does say Dempsey handlers saw the exhibition in Goshen. But I'll still take it...You haven't shot a hole in anything, and you haven't proven anything either in regards to this, except for another haughty accusation. This is concerning the Darcy/Fulton spar not anything else.

 

The reports of Crouse fighting Dacry are quite clear in describing the events. The opening round saw little damaging action, other Crouse throw a solid right hand which bounced od Darcy's jaw; barely shaking him. Darcy entered round 2 with a head of steam, icing Crouse in short time. Asleep. Before the bout, Crouse had approached Darcy, suggesting a nice fight. As both were Catholic, Crouse mentioned that this bout would provide well for a second bout, therfore allowing Crouse to provide house and home for his wife and kid back home. Darcy felt double crossed in the openiong round- hence Crouse was flattened. I dont give a rats arse about Crouse's testimony. No man offers his head to be knocked unconcious.

McGoorty was confident of stopping Darcy in 2 rounds. he'd been playing up at the race courses and offered to sell his film rights for 50 Quid. Again, this fiction you provide is baseless, as McGoorty lasted until the 8th round before being KO'd himself. Another man- who'd never been KO'd- offered his chin to Darcy?? Fact is, McGoorty was out muscled and punished. Would you like to read fight reports??

Snowy Bakers words to the referee.. just provide a single word said. Just one... Court room testimony made by Al Lippe has as much substance as yourself. You do realise that Darcy proposed a match with Jeff Smith in the USA for FREE??? Oddly enough, Al Lippe refused. Would you like to read the letter from Al Lippe. Al Lippe signs off as 'Manager of Jeff Smith, Middleweight Champion of the World". Poor Al Lippe.... I think he was showing signs of being a very confused man. Not unlike you Klompy.

Winning by way of Dsq is unsatisfactory. Nice try. The result goes in less favour for the man Dsq'd. Are American NC's or NWD's more satisfactory. Smith got the verdict. Stop sulking. Had Darcy not shown Dave Smith the huge dent in the groin guard at the end of the 5th round, the Dave Smith would not have hastily reacted.

You've told me nothing of the difficulties facing American fighters, other than your own idea of what it would be like in a foreign country. You've probably never been outside of you own country to make assessments.

Dig up your reports regarding KO Brown. Im not the one on the defence here..... and yours has truly failed in this thread.

The belt made for Darcy.. would you prefer Jeff Smith be presented with a belt inscribed to Les?? Did 'the belt' affect any fight outcome, or ensure Jeff Smith had a torrid time in this glorious country??

Darcy himself demanded $50,000 to face Gibbons?? Provide evidence. Tim O'Sullivan, if anyone, would have made that kind of statement.

 

Have you proven it happened? Like I said, I have never seen one single word written by an independant source that the Darcy-Fulton sparring match ever took place and more to the point that Darcy ever made Fulton quit.

I havent shot a hole in anything? A picture was posted purporting to be Darcy-Fulton. It wasnt. A story was posted purported to a first person account by Jack Dempsey of the match. It wasnt and couldnt have been. After I illustrated why it wasnt and couldnt have been you stated you choose to believe Dempsey. Fair enough but when I point out Dempsey admitted he never even saw Darcy you still choose to believe the story. That pretty much tells me your mind is made up and you are unwilling to question it. Thats fine, whatever. But it doesnt exactly make for objective reasoning. The fact is that you can pour over newspaper accounts across the United States from the day Darcy got off the boat to the day he died and you wont find any mention of Darcy ever sparring with Fulton, certainly no mention of a stoppage. Not even a rumor of it. Like most of these stories that are too good to be true the rumor seems to start years later. Like most of these rumors Ill believe it when I see definitive proof, such as an account from someone who was actually there and didnt have an association with Rickard or Grant Browne who were just the type to float a story about Darcy KOing Fulton on the heals of Fulton's headline getting win over Weinert in order to build Darcy up.

 

You're right. Dempsey's handlers, who were there, must have told Jack a fabricated story in later years. You even consider that the story was closed lipped?? Ever think that it remained amongst a select few, just to save Fulton's reputation??

I'll also take Dempsey's imagination over your own.

There's no report of Darcy vs Guv'na Balsa in the Maitland Mercury. Are you disputing that ever took place??

 

A couple of points child:

Darcy did not offer to fight Smith for free. In fact upon arriving he stated he would NOT fight Smith again and that Smith was a foul fighter who should never be allowed to fight. The fact is that Darcy was very quickly ridiculed in the American press for his wishing to pick and choose his opponents. He consistently turned down offers to fight the best only to float offers for less money to face lesser opposition. You obviously have no understanding of what you are talking about in regards to how Darcy was thought of or handled over here. His exhibition tour was panned and cancelled early because of his poor drawing power and he was hooted from the audience. He arrived in late december and yet his first actual boxing match wasnt scheduled until early March. If he was in such marvelous shape as you suggest, and there was no need to recover from such a long journey why did he wait so long before fighting the best? Why didnt he just hop off the boat and start knocking out the best fighters week after week like you suppose he would have. They were all clamouring for the chance. Chip, Gibbons, Dillon, Miske, McCoy, Greb, Willard, Levinsky, and on and on and on all were practically drooling over a shot at him and the publicity his defeat would bring and yet Darcy sat by and supposedly sparred in secret once with Fred Fulton with no newspaper men or anyone else around... Why? Yet its your contention that he didnt turn down a single match. Fine, show me where he accepted and went through with one. In those days a typical promotion lasted 10 days. 10 days came and went 6 times before Darcy was banned in the state of New York (and he was offered bouts in Canada, Cuba, and Mexico, a fact Australians choose to forget) yet he fought no one. NO ONE. Why, when he finally was licensed did he instead choose to fight Len Rowlands? Mike Gibbons was available, Chip was available, Jeff Smith was available, Levinsky, Miske, Dillon, even Fred Fulton. All were available up to beyond the time Darcy fought and all would have loved a shot at him. Yet it was Len Rowlands who drew the assignment... A guy who had never defeated a world class middleweight in his 4 or 5 year career.

I dont need YOUR account of any of Darcy's fights. I already have them. McGoorty didnt last until the 8th with Darcy. The fight in question is the first fight which went 15 and which was stopped by the police. The second was stopped by McGoorty's corner who threw in the towel but somehow managed to not get DQd (which apparently is common in Australia when throwing in the towel, imagine that...

Firstly, yes Darcy demanded $50,000, secondly, was Tim O'Sullivan not Darcy's representative?

 

klompton, I believe you made your own mind up a long time before this thread ever started with an attempted smear campaign against Darcy. Let me know when you, yourself find objective reasoning.

 

So there was a conspiracy to save Fulton's career....:rofl

In Balsa you are talking about Darcy's first fight, on an unknown date, in the middle of nowhere, LITERALLY. The Darcy-Fulton sparring match would have been held between the most publicized fighter in the USA on that date and the #1 HW challenger who was just coming off his own very highly publicized win at the gym of a sports mogul situated about 20 mins by train from largest city in the USA where there was the largest concentration of press in the western hemisphere, many of whom were dogging Darcy's movements. Yet somehow the story wasnt mentioned for years, by anyone.

Thats a hell of a conspiracy. Whoever crafted that must have been on the grassy knoll.

 

The Balsa fight must have been fabricated also. You wont dispute it non the less. There is more evidence suggesting Darcy gave Fulton a hiding, than not. Until proven otherwise, I'll accept Jack Dempsey's comment over yours. :hi:

 

I havent smeared anyone. Ive stated the facts and rejected myth until someone can show me some proof otherwise. If you can come up with a legit source on the Darcy-Fulton fight Ill gladly accept it. I have no problem with that. My point is that when it comes to this era Id say Im probably as well read in primary sources as anyone and Ive never seen a single written word about this event. Not one. If you can show me otherwise I would love to see it because as Ive stated: IVE LOOKED, HARD. I would even accept the word of someone who said something like "they are saying Darcy knocked Fulton out yesterday, never happened, I was there and Fulton quit sparring because he had another engagement to go to" or something like that. i would look at that and say, well, maybe there is something to the old story. But I havent even found that. The closest thing you can find is the wire report that Darcy intended to train with Fulton in late March of 1917 BUT right after that wire report Darcy left New York so one can assume that he never took up training with Fulton after that date.

 

What evidence? Show me some.

 

I've read an account published in 1917 or '18 about Darcy knocking Fulton cold in two rounds of sparring.
Mick King told it, soon after Darcy's death.
King was part of the Darcy camp admittedly.

 

Dear Moron,
I'm writing this to you in hope it finds you in a semi-conscious state; with a slight chance you pay some kind of attention.

Firstly, Dacry did propose a fight with Jeff Smith; stating that he'd fight Jeff Smith for FREE!! Al Lippe pointed that out himself in a letter. That letter can be found printed in it's entirety in Bob Powers book "Les Darcy- The American Venture". I would take my time to print it for you, yet, as you fail to provide appropriate arguement for any one of your silly claims thus far, I'll choose to sit back and allow you to further tarnish your already diminished credibility. If you choose to beg, then I'll provide the letter; word for word.

Why didn't Darcy just hop of the boat and start knocking out the opponents, one by one, until there were none left?? Well Einstein, you for one should have already noted that Darcy himself was allowing Tex Rickard handle his earliest affair. Oh, you forgot that important note?? Would you like me to expand on that?? I get the feeling that you are using myself as something of a teacher for you... filling in the blanks for you.. Unfortunately, that void cranium perched upon you feminine shoulders will remain void. Theren is obviously no way of miking you undertand what common sense is.

Not a chance in hell was O'Sullivan in charge of Les Darcy's affairs, as Manager, whilst in the USA. Organising the 'boarding and passage' of both the Hattie Luckenbach, and later the Cushing, was the only business left up to O'Sullivan. Like most US managers, O'Sullivan was a complete bull**** artist. A liar and a con. His attempts to get Gibbons were totally outrageous and not a interest he should have invested any time in. Darcy was under no obligations to O'Sullivan, either contractually or in any business partnerships. You obviously ****ed up again. Read about O'Sullivan; being a bull**** artist, you'll feel a quite akin to him. :hi::hi::hi::hi:

Thank you again for the entertainment.