Sonny Liston 'The Last Days'

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Il Duce, Jan 27, 2011.


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  1. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Despite claims of getting a 'hot shot' by some underworld thugs.

    None of it makes any sense.
    Beating Chuck Wepner in June 1970, and then getting whacked in
    December 1970,,,,,because he didn't take a dive.

    Who actually came up with that.
    If Sonny owed anybody money, whacking him wasn't going to get them their money back.

    Sonny Liston was actually working on several deals before his death.
    Though he may not have been rolling in the dough, he wasn't near broke
    like others have stated.

    Claims of him hanging out with some bad people on the outskirts of
    Las Vegas, and involved with 'so-called' drug deals, is complete
    garbage.

    He may have associated with some 'low-lifes', but getting involved
    with drug-dealing activity, NO WAY.

    If anything, it was gambling and some 'strong-arming'.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 27, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 27, 2011
    #1
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    So you're satisfied that Liston never used heroin? What brought you to that conclusion?



    As to the murder-and-dive theory, I think nothing's ever been produced, basically. Agree.
     
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2011
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2011
    #2
  3. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I never stated that Sonny Liston didn't 'dabble' in Smack.
    I stated that he was not a 'mid-level dealer'.

    If anything, he was hanging around the 'Hollywood types' in
    Las Vegas and sometimes in Los Angeles, some who were 'confirmed users'.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 27, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 27, 2011
    #3
  4. fatcity

    fatcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    A gambling problem as opposed to a drug problem is more plausable.
    ****ing with the wrong dudes in Vegas(in those days) wsa extremely bad for your health.:dead
     
    fatcity, Jan 27, 2011
    fatcity, Jan 27, 2011
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  5. bigjake

    bigjake Active Member Full Member

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    didn't liston have a signed contract to fight george chuvalo at the time of his death?chuvalo fought jimmy ellis instead.
     
    bigjake, Jan 27, 2011
    bigjake, Jan 27, 2011
    #5
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well I don't know about that the Il Duce. Sonny was a confirmed user, I was pretty sure, and associated. It's hard to imagine him not getting involved tbh.
     
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2011
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2011
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  7. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    User,,,,yes,,,,,,,,heavy user,,,??? (who knows)

    He did hang around with Joe Louis, Godfrey Cambridge and Redd Foxx during those
    later days.
    Drinking was his appetite.

    Mid-late November 1970 he was in Los Angeles for some minor business, including
    film work and still shots.
    He got involved in a car accident, and was hospitalized on Wednesday,
    November 25, and spent several days in the hospital.
    On Friday night, November 27, he watched 'Love American Style' from his hospital bed.
    Sonny was featured in that TV airing, with Godfrey Cambridge.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 27, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 27, 2011
    #7
  8. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jim Morrison also used smack, but had the same aversion to needles Sonny had, so he didn't shoot up. (It was through reading "No One Here Gets Out Alive" that I first learned heroin did not necessarily have to be injected to be used, not that it matters much to me. I've read "Legal Highs" as well, and just don't have much temptation to dabble in any of it. Being a former bartender though, medicating my cold with an XO brandy stinger last night was delightful.) Louis was convinced that if drugs were injected into Liston's body, then somebody other than Sonny shot it in.
     
    Duodenum, Jan 27, 2011
    Duodenum, Jan 27, 2011
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What was the Louis quote?
     
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2011
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2011
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  10. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Something to the effect of, "Sonny never shot up drugs. If drugs were in his veins, somebody other than Sonny shot them in." I do not recall where I read this, or who Joe said it to, as it's been many years. What I did not know then was that Louis himself also reportedly abused drugs a bit. (The common assumption then was that Joe had experienced some mental problems caused by taking too many punches.)
     
    Duodenum, Jan 27, 2011
    Duodenum, Jan 27, 2011
    #10
  11. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    McG,,,,,Like you said, Heroin didn't have to be injected.

    And Cocaine, was starting to make its presence then.

    As for possible future fights, a bout with George Chuvalo was in the works for
    March 1971, in Pittsburg.
    Also, a Mac Foster bout to be held in Las Vegas, at The International Hotel and Casino
    was also in the works.
    Sonny was also scheduled to go to Japan, to discuss a possible movie role, and
    Referee '2' Title fights, as well as discussing possible bouts with Mac Foster and aging Zora Folley.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 27, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 27, 2011
    #11
  12. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Money may not have been a major issue, as Sonny Liston bought a new
    1971 Cadillac Fleetwood in December 1970.

    A week before his presumed death (December 25, 1970), on December 18th, Sonny was arrested on suspicion of drunk driving in Las Vegas.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 27, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 27, 2011
    #12
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    There is some evidence that Liston was using.

    A balloon and syringe were found at the scene of the crime. Yes, it is possible they were planted there by whoever injected him, but this is now well into the realms of the conspiracy and seems a little over-complicated given what was actually happening. Furthermore, Liston was described as being "littered" with syringe marks, so whoever did this was smart and savy enough to make it look like an accident then go bat**** overboard when stabbing Liston repeatedly with a syringe when one would have sufficed.

    Liston had been a car wreck - help me out with the dates here Il Duce? - some two months (?) earlier and had received a course of injections whilst in the hospital. Could this have helped him with his phobia? Heroin is an incredibly addictive drug. The number of people who use regularly but never inject is minimal, I would imagine. I would also imagine that the craving for the ultimate heroin hit would outweigh even the most serious of phobias (which Liston had definitely partially overcome by this time anyway).

    One possibility is that Liston's body still held the syringe marks that he received in hospital. This has never been ruled out, though it doesn't seem likely.t

    Lem Banker states that he had been warned by police that Liston had been seen at a drug's house ear-marked for raid. Banker also states that he was being followed by the police at this time. This is not unusual for Sonny, but there is something here, I think. What happened here may be the key to understanding how heavy Liston's actually involvement were in terms of the drug dealing rather than buying.
     
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2011
    McGrain, Jan 27, 2011
    #13
  14. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    It didn't work for Oscar Bonavena either.
     
    red cobra, Jan 27, 2011
    red cobra, Jan 27, 2011
    #14
  15. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What I have, that is concrete.
    Sonny Liston was in Los Angeles around November 15 (Sunday), and was with
    some 'Hollywood types' (ie; the in crowd).
    While there, he was doing some still shots and discussing a possible film role.
    He was at Paramount Studios, on and off during the week, and also at the
    Beverly Hills Hotel.
    He was seen with Godfrey Cambridge, late-nighting.

    On Thursday, November 19, he attended a 'fight card' at The Olympic.
    That night, was seen at 'Grayson's Restaraunt' with boxing type associates.

    On Wednesday, November 25, he was involved in a car accident, in Los Angeles.
    He was on his way to the Los Angeles International Airport, to head back home to Las Vegas.
    He was taken to the hospital (not by ambulance) for observation, after complaining of
    soreness.

    He spent Thanksgiving, Thursday, November 26, in the Hospital.
    Hospital stay, from Wednesday, November 25 thru Saturday, November 28.
    No major injuries, diagnosed with minor body trauma, as a result of the shock.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 27, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 27, 2011
    #15
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