(against a WW). It seems to me that most of his close fights when he was a WW came against MWs. Could it be that he was not only never defeated by a WW, but never came really close to being defeated either?
The second fight against Servo was split dec and seems to have been tight: Robinson "prevailed by a narrow margin and the crowd of 15000 vociferously disapproved of the decision." The referee gave the bout to Servo, but both judges voted for Robinson. (New York Times) Anyone know anything more about this one?
Maybe the second Marty Servo bout? At work so don't have any books on me at the moment. I seem to remember reading a bit about it though.
His fights with Arty Levine & Gavilan(first fight). I'll gather more articles about the fights if I can find them but in one of the fights with Gavilan(I think the first), some of the crowd booed the decision when Robinson was announced the winner. The second fight was a war where Robinson threw everything but the kitchen sink at Gavilan but he held his own against Ray. Shows you how great Gavilan was. With the Levine fight, Levine decked Robinson in I think the 4th round and the count is considered controversial. I'll find articles if I can.
Yeah, I remember hearing about that long count against Levine. The Gavilan fight doesn't seem to be as close as the crowd reaction made it out to be. Articles about it has been posted here before. In fact none of the fights against Gavilan seem to be have very close, although competitive.
The crowd's reaction is pretty useless when attempting to determine the closeness of bouts of which there is no film. According to the scribes, it appears Robinson won the first fight in a close, hotly contested, but clear one, and the rematch even clearer, although again competitive. I'd say Marty Servo held his own as good as any over the distance according to what I've read in the past. I'll see if I can find something. Maybe Levine was the other name I was thinking of, but I can't help but feel that someone's being missed out here. I know Robbi had some close calls.
That.s easy. On Nov.6,1946 in Ckeveland, Artie Levine dropped Ray Robinson flat on his back motionless. The referee instead of starting the count,WALKED back Artie Levine,to a neutral corner,and walked back,and started the belated count. Reporters claim Robinson was down for 17 seconds,when he in a fog got off the canvass. In the following round Artie Levine [Lavigne],was hit in the adams apple and ko'd in the 10th rd. I knew Artie Levine's Aunt,[my mom's acquaintance],and was she angry !!!
I'm not saying the crowd officially determines winners but I do recall hearing that many there felt Gavilan won the first fight. If anyone can find objective articles about that fight I'd love to see them. I find articles about the rematch all of the time when I look for details of Gavilan fighting Robinson. I have heard the Robinson won the rematch clear but I think the first fight wasn't as clear as many would like to think. I would love to see the fight in order to be for sure but too bad there's no footage known of either fight.
There was a thread a while ago where several articles were posted about the first fight. The general opinion in them seemed to be that it was hard fought, but that Robinson clearly won. The best I personally can do is this quote (taken from Boxrec). Although most sportswriters agreed that Robinson had won, the fans "disagreed violently with the verdict in Robinson’s favor" and "set up such a roar of disagreement that the introduction of the championship principals was delayed until order was restored." (James P. Dawson, New York Times)
Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Robinson but at the same time people could have been biased for him on articles because he was the man @ WW at the time. I'm not saying that it was a "robbery", it wasn't. I'm just speculating by saying that maybe it wasn't as clear as people made it seem. I would love to see the fight myself but unfortunately there's no known footage of it. There's pictures but that's it. Most of them have Robbie punching Gavilan*sigh* lol.