Are the Klitschko Bros ATGs?

Lol, some people STILL don't rate Lewis, never mind 1999! You have a point though, their status should be decided when they are retired, as Lewis' was.

 

If Hopkins is an ATG, then Vitaliy will be as well. Both dominated over a mediocre division, both were literally untouchable, both are much bigger than their opponents at their ideal weight (Hopkins being 160 and Vitaliy HW), both lost to the top elite fighter at that time (Hopkins to Jones and Vitaliy to Lennox via an extremely lucky cut), you could say that both failed to avenge their loss, unless you count Bernard's whiny bitchy performance against a shadow of Roy Jones's corpse, both are extremely difficult to fight against due to their styles, and both are one of the most if not the most dominant figures in their respective divisions despite passing the big 40 (Vitaliy is a few months away, and Hopkins is I believe 44?)
The only difference that really should matter (I am ignoring the race and nationality issue, if that matters to you, don't read my posts) is that Hopkins moved up in weight whereas Vitaliy couldn't have possibly done that due to his 6'8 frame. However, Vitaliy did win numerous amateur titles, including a 3 time world champion in kick boxing, so an argument could still be made of them being on par.

As for Wlad...He used to be the most exciting fighter in HW before Manny "The Cherrypicker" Stewart got to him. Now he is just a "Safety first" cyborg that crushes opponents with minimal effort and minimal excitement....he is amazing from the definition of sweet science, which is "Hit and don't get hit" and is a true master of the art, but for the love of MMA, someone has to teach that man how to fight in close quarters!

He has: ATG top 3 Jab, ATG top 3 Right Cross, Atg top 10 left hook (severely underrated, but he doesn't use it enough), and ATG Character (came back after 3 DEVASTATING losses, having to go against Donky King, etc). He is an ideal distance fighter, is extremely disciplined, and when training, I used to watch his tapes to mimic his distance work. Long range and mid-range he is an ATG TOP 3 without a doubt. His discipline is unparalleled, his work ethic is rivaled only by the likes of Many Paquao. But his lack of an ATG chin coupled with his dismal showings in short range will always cause him to be a boring fighter, although he easily (and absolutely lethargically) will beat every heavyweight active today (except his brother) and many of other eras that were considered great.

 

^Good post and avatar

According to some of you- if you have to beat a prime great to become a great yourself, then there will NEVER be another great heavyweight. If the next Ali came through the ranks in 5 years time he would never be a great because he'd have no one to beat

What a ridiculous notion

If you rank great heavyweights by attributes and head to head ability, Vitali is at least top 20

If you rank by dominance and resume, Wlad is at least 20

 

Wlad's resume is as good as this era allows it to be. He virtually cleaned out an entire division single-handedly with only Haye, Povetkin and Adamek left with whom he'll deal soon enough I reckon.
Besides, he should be considered ATG on longevity and dominance alone.

 

Losing to Lewis is not an embarrassment, although he was on his way out, and he could had being ahead on the cards against Lewis but he was getting pummeled, the cut save him from an embarrassing KO.

 

Well, its clear the way you see it! "lame compettition, embarassing losses, **** era," just say it! you hate the Klitschkos for whatever reason, do they make you feel less than a real man??

 

The haters never give up!
Lewis was out on his feet.

 

both lists

atg list

atg boring list

 

-Lewis ruled 2000-2004, the same years Byrd was recoginzed as an elite upper tier HW. Should we downgrade Lennox's reign with this "glass half empty" indictment of the division approach? Byrd has an excellent pedigree, he beat many of the same contenders Lewis did in this time though less impressively: old Holyfield, Vitali, and Tua.

-There are of course more quality names than Byrd on Wlad's resume, but if you are not going to be open minded to an unquestionable excellent fighter like him what is the point? "Ah, that's more of an indictment of the HW division..."

 

If you don't think Wlad or Vitali are ATG's...then you need to apply that same criteria to Tyson, Holmes, etc...

 

Because people consider this era to have sub par fighters, I can see why some might put them down farther on their ATG list.
I believe they dominate the division, have shown the desire to fight often and against anyone out there i.e. experienced or young and hungry.
What more can they do?
But if the next up and coming ATG (which we cannot know at this time) were to beat one of them in the next couple years, you all know that that K brother would be listed on that ATG win list as proof of his "all time greatness"

To me that says something.

 

That's another thing that hurts their historical standing. This idea of tag-teaming the era. No other great fighters got clumped in with the other top dog. No one goes on about Lewis and Hloyfield's collective triumphs. No one groups Ali and Fraizer into one entity.
With the Klitschkos is hurts their standing that the biggest threat out there does not have to be faced, because it's each other. It perfectly understandable to not expect brothers to fight. Unfortunately, it also hurts that the only valid opponent is out of the equation.