Darcy versus SRR

That's quite a disclaimer Klompy. I've deleted a large portion of the rhetorical nonsense from you and find this saved piece amusing.

'Every obvious fact' of Darcy's FAVOURTISM, as described by you, has been shot to pieces in this thread. You need to provide adequate arguement, defend the rubbish you've posted or admit that you're knowlegde is sub par. Continually 'claiming evidence of..' is not good enough Klomps. You have failed.

You've not provided a single name of any Australian who suggested Darcy was beaten by KO Brown.

You've not provided a single word, action and other, from Snowy to Harald, that affected the outcome of any bout- in any month or year whilst these two men were at the Sydney Stadium.

You claim Harald Baker was constantly favouring Darcy. You failed to nominate a single action by Baker that favoured Darcy. I showed, quite clearly, that Baker was not in favour of Les.

You claim Buck Crouse went to his grave protesting 'a rigged' fight with Les. A poor fighter, that lasted 2 rounds against Les. KNOCKED OUT.

This content is protected

This content is protected

Thefirst McGoorty fight was rigged??? "McGoorty said so". Rubbish. Yep, my mistake for confusing the first and second bout. It must have been rigged, as McGoorty barely survived the 14th, and hit the floor on three occassions in the 15th round. Various reports claim the ringside Police Officer simply stood up, and Baker waved it off before McGoorty recieved any further 'rigged' punishment. Other reports state that the Officer 'called' a halt to the bout; instructions followed by Harald Baker.

You belittle Les Darcy for finally being allowed to fight- in Memphis- against Len Rowlands. 'A nothing fighter'. You failed to point out that Rowlands took Jeff Smith (a world class fighter) 15 rounds, just 3 weeks after Darcy's demise. The following week Rowlands took Jack Dillon the distance, and then a couple of months later, Rowlands took Harry Greb the full journey. This same Greb, who could not blow out a candle, you claim would have 'blasted holes' in some other poor unfortunate in your disclaimer. The only 'salt shaker' is your head Klomps.

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

[/quote]

Bump.

My fantasy world?? Try responding to this.

 

Your theories are poor.
You insult my genetics???? Klompy... :-(

You're a frustrated little boy.

 

I dont need to respond to it. Its obvious to all, I should hope, that its pathetic.

If you deny that Darcy on his own home turf, with all of the advantages and "help" was recieving did not have a leg up on his competition then its ignorant to even hold a rational discussion with you. As stated before, people complain about going over to Germany now and even in Germany they dont have half the advantages that Darcy was benefitting from. A REF THAT WAS THE BROTHER OF HIS MANAGER WHO WAS BEING COACHED FROM OUTSIDE THE RING BY HIS MANAGER!!! Let me spell that out again for you: A REF THAT WAS THE BROTHER OF HIS MANAGER WHO WAS BEING COACHED FROM OUTSIDE THE RING BY HIS MANAGER!!! In what ****ing fantasy world is that compatible with sportsmanship and fair play. You can say "show me how it effected the outcome" Bull****. Even if it didnt, which you can neithe prove nor disprove, its ridiculous. Period, it means there was an obvious bias there. Its as simple as that. Nobody stepped in to stop it, and indeed a specially cleared "track" was made around the ring to aid in it. That right there tells you that there was an established and sanctioned method of coaching the ref to the benefit of Darcy. Period. There is no more discuss on the matter because thats the way it is. Can you explain that sorry little fact away in any other rational light other than "It happened but prove to me that it effected the outcome." Jesus H. Christ how ****ing stupid do you have to be???

Can I provide a single Australian who thought Brown won? No, I dont know any Australians who lived 100 years ago. Sorry, we will just have to go by anectodal accounts. However, if thats not good enough for you I understand. Kind of like me asking for a non Australian who actually saw Darcy knock Fred Fulton out. Oh wait, we are still waiting on your imaginary Fred Fulton quote to go along with a photo you posted of Fred Fulton that wasnt Fred Fulton...

Yes, Buck Crouse did go to his grave stating that he took a dive against Darcy. As Gus Christie didnt think that much of him either and had no doubt he would have lost to Gibbons. As McGoorty was quite clear in his boldly admitting, even prior to the fight, that the first fight with McGoorty was staged. If you dont accept that then why should anyone accept that Darcy knocked out Fulton, and frankly what does it matter? He didnt knock out Christie, or Brown, or Clabby, Smith, Murray, Holland, Loughrey etc etc. He wasnt the kind of guy who just touched you and you went to sleep. Unless you believe the bull**** Ruth Champion party line love letter to Darcy that he just let those guys hand around because it was the honorable thing to do and that it showed his skill (give me a ****ing break). Even if we accept, without any unbiased proof that Darcy knocked out Fred Fulton in an impromptu sparring match of which we have absolutely no details, then what? What does that mean for you hero. That he knocked out a huge HW contender who we now know had a glass jaw? Who was knocked out in 17 seconds by Dempsey in the most important fight of his life. Does that somehow mean Darcy would have accomplished what Dempsey accomplished? **** NO! We dont know what Darcy would have accomplished because he ****ing died before it happened which is the point of the comments that got your panties in a twist to begin with.

And finally, yes, Len Rowlands was a nothing fighter. Period. He was a journeyman at best. Darcy travelled to the United States supposedly to win a championship, make a fortune, and help set his ailing mum up for life. Instead, whether you believe it or not, he steadfastly refused to face the best fighters he was matched with, demanding unheard of sums of money that werent even being paid to the HW champion, and ended up planning for a fight with Len Rowlands, over 8 rounds, in Memphis, TN, which for all of our Australian fans reading this wasnt exactly going to generate the tens of thousands of dollars he was demanding to fight guys like Mike Gibbons.

Should I continue to provide more gaps in your logic? Dont run away, dont run away, I know its the natural thing for a criminal to do when hes cornered. I love getting to point out your ineptitude.

Come on, open the door to Oz one more time and let us into your little world. Lets see some more pictures of Darcy sparring with Fulton. Lets hear some more how Sullivan wasnt Darcy's manager, or how Darcy would have accepted any offer that came his way. Lets here more about he didnt flee on the eve conscription to avoid the draft and line his own pockets but how he was just a boy trying to do right by his dear old mum.

It cracks me up because a month before Darcy died the story was so much different than a month after. I often wonder how Australians can even believe their bull****, especially the ones who actually lived it...

 

It makes sense doesnt it? If an entire landlocked country is populated by criminals, and those criminals bread with each other, and have little criminal babies, and those criminal babies bread and have more criminals, well, you do the math. You are, by virtue of your genes, an ignorant, lying piece of scum descended from criminals. Dont worry, I dont hold it against you. You cant help it. You were born to it. But, like your criminal forefathers when you want something you will lie, and cheat to get it. In this case you want the Darcy myth to be true so bad that you are lying in an effort to keep it true.

 

Can you provide EVIDENCE that Snowy influenced Harald?? NO. Had the interior of Sydney Stadium been dramatically changed since 1907, for the purpose of suiting any particular manager, proprietor, referee or other?? A roof, ammenities and other being the only changes. That same walk way is seen in footage of Burns/Johnson, photographs from the fight, and photo's from 1909, 10, 11, 12 and 13... well before Darcy vs Holland. You can't "prove, or disprove", but you suggest it's FACT?? ....FAIL

Annecdotal accounts re: KO Brown?? Suddenly that will suffice?? Nothing written, no newspaper accounts, no primary sources, no independant sources??? Just your opinion... FAIL.

Where in this thread have I projected opinions into the future?? McCoy? Yes, easy pickings. Other than that??? ....FAIL.

McGoorty staged fight?? Even a man such as McGoorty would not take a hiding for 14 rounds, be dropped 3 times in the 15th and claim afterwards the fight WAS STAGED. I guess the cop at ringside was also involved in 'the fix'.... and McGoorty's own post fight testimony was 'fixed'. .....FAIL.

O'Sullivan was not Darcy's manager. It's not just some kind of common knowledge. The fact you continue along this angle shows great lack of intelligence... FAIL.

What was so different a month after Darcy died?? American attitudes?? YES. The day after he died INFACT. Read the ****ing press. Read the obituraries. Read the letters/disclaimers from the ignorant folk who railroaded him, yet claimed 'sympathy, sorrow and admiration' for the man. Why would the likes of San Francisco hold the largest funeral procession in the cities history for a man that had never even been there?? Why would countless offers be made to cover ALL costs of returning the body, funeral and burial costs. Why is Darcy in The International Boxing Hall of Fame... not Smith, Chip, McGoorty etc. etc. etc.??...FAIL

Rowlands was a "nothing fighter"????.. That speaks volumes for Smith, Dillon and that Greb bloke. A journey man took all three the distance within 3 months of Darcy's death.

Congratulation Klompy. You've FAILED.

 

Now you insult my forfathers??

Klompy Klompy Klompy.. :rofl:rofl:rofl:hi::hi::hi:

You're frustrated.. It's really getting you upset. :deal

Poor little Klomp.

 

It doesnt matter if Snowy effected Harald or not. The fact that it took place and was accepted is proof enough that Australians accepted in turn even those most dubious practices to the benefit of the Australian. Whether the path was there or not prior to 1908 is academic. Its doesnt matter because it testified and accepted as fact in court that this was a common practice. You live there, go pull the records and post those. I know you wont since they would be damaging to your argument as they shed light on a lot of the **** that was going on down there. Hell, you would probably deny their existence.

Answer me, if Darcy came and fought here against Mike Gibbons, and his managers brother was the referee, and it was simply accepted that his manager could walk around the ring in a cleared path so that he would be unobstructed while being allowed to coach the referee on his officiating, how would you react to that. Is everything fine and dandy? **** it, put Mundine, or Fenech, or Rose, or anyone else in that situation because it wasnt an accepted practice then and it certainly isnt now, you think thats just fine and dandy? You dont think that gives the appearance of impropriaty?


O'Sullivan was acting as Darcy's manager at his behest. Senya has already pointed that out and quotes to that fact can be easily found populating the newspapers. Do you think Darcy took Sullivan along on that ridiculous voyage as guide? Or maybe you think Sullivan was just taking in the sea air. Whenever he was presented with a proposal why did Darcy refer it to Sullivan until they had their falling out, which was sped along in no small part due to Sullivan signing contracts with Gibbons and Smith for a Darcy fight. But oh no, you dont want to believe that Darcy had signed fights in a state that was willing to stage them with two fighters he was supposedly willing to face for free and then backed out, no not our boy...


Wait, so now going the distance with fighters better than yourself makes you something special? You think simply because Rowlands went the distance with Greb, Dillon, and Smith he was something more than a journeyman? Is that your contention? I want to be clear on this point. Is it your contention that Rowlands was somehow equal in stature to the opponents who were climbing over each other for a shot at Darcy in a major venue, men like Gibbons, Smith, Dillon, Chip, Miske, et al? Is that your contention. So let me get this straight. Len Rowlands over 8 rounds, in Memphis was as much a bankable and marquee match as Gibbons in one of the major venues, your logic behind this is because Rowlands went the distance in losing to Dillon, Smith and Greb AFTER Darcy died... And in the same post you state you arent projecting your opinion into the future... Really?

Not American attitudes, Australian attitudes. Australians wanted Darcy's blood a lot worse than Americans. We were happy to marginalize him. It was Australians who were baying for his blood. They had a lot worse things to say about him there than we ever did here. Then he dies and suddenly the story changes. Yes I do find it funny. Because every biography you read of Darcy will tell you that powerful interests led by Snowy Baker and Huge Deal McIntosh used their influence with the press to wage a smear campaign against him while he was alive. This conspiracy even reached American shores. We are supposed to believe that BUT you cant believe that these same interests who were so upset at having lost a guy they had such a huge investment in that they could wage a campaign against him a world away, had no influence over his career whatsoever in their own country and wouldnt have used those same tactics to keep Darcy winning and any negative press to a minimum? :happy Yay, things really are all topsy turvy in Oz, we certainly arent in Kansas anymore are we...


In short congratulations, you continue to spell out your delusion with every post...

 

I wouldnt insult them. They had it hard enough shipped away to some foreign god forsaken place for stealing bread, or rum, to feed their family. Thats awful. Im merely pointing out the likely reason why you are so backwards. After all, your country is so backwards even the toilet water swirls in the opposite direction. Its easy to see how you could so mixed up.

 

I dont normally like to get into the non boxing comments, but i have to say, for any Australians that have actually been to America, the thought of such a backward place that is stuck in the 1980s really is quite funny. I was actually having a good laugh about this earlier today. Anyone who hasnt been to the two places probably wont understand. And the good old USA has a lot of good things to be proud about, is great to visit, and has some of the most likeable people i have ever met, but without a doubt, backward should be the last derogatory term they throw around. Makes me laugh just thinking about it.

 

Another FAIL from Klomp.

Suddenly it doesn't matter if Snowy DID NOT have an effect on any fight.. he was there yelling anyway??? :rofl Wow, so now Snowy was behaving like the 'average Joe' fight fan who screamed support from the bleachers?? Nice retraction Klompy. I'll check the court transcripts, and see if I feel my arguement is damaged.. Christ, I hope Colin Powell, in the same court sessions, didn't make a statement of '"we have more than sufficient intelligence to suggest Iraq are housing large stockpiles of WMD's"... that would make Australia look really stupid... hey Klomps????


Had Darcy fought Gibbons in the USA, I couldn't care who said, or did what, from ringside. The judges/ref's decision at the end of the fight would not change. Did Harald's decisions change??

Rose's faced three Japanese officials in Japan, vs Harada. He won.
Fenech was robbed in Vegas.
Mundine travelled the world. I have never heard him complain of any decsions. Quit trying to make an arguement out of NOTHING.

Senya has shown/proved nothing. I asked to see the article. He has not provided yet.
Darcy had entrusted O'Sullivan to arrange passage to America. Having done so, he'd have been a well cared for man, had he kept his ego in-check. He did not, therfore he was 'dismissed'. Had a contractual agreement been in place, then a courtroom battle would have followed. Nothing but slander followed. That shows what a dog O'Sullivan could be.

Listen, empty head.. You tried to belittle Darcy by saying he only managed to secure a fight with a "NOTHING FIGHTER". My point is that Rowlands took these three men the distance inside three months after Darcy's death. I'm projecting nothing into the future, I'm quit clearly stating that this 'nothing fighter' had no problem lasting the rounds with men you seem to rate so highly. You belittled Rowlands, and inadvertantly belittled Greb, Smith and Dillon in that claim. A "nothing fighter" should not last the rounds with any world class men.

Your final paragraph offers nothing worthy of response. I'm starting to pity you Klompy. Seriously. I'll keep in touch. Should I get back to the USA in the next few years, I'll let you know. Perhaps you'll kindly slag off my genetics face to face???? I certainly hope so anyway. :hi::hi::hi::hi::hi:

 

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

 

Now you have peaked my interest. Please expand on this.

 

Associated Press
New York, Feb. 16.--Les Darcy to-day began to be about as unpopular with the sport-loving public in New York as it is possible for a man who has been placed upon a pedestal. Following the announcement that he did not intend to live up to a contract signed for him by Tim O'Sullivan, his manager, calling for bouts in Milwaukee with Jeff Smith of Jercey City and Mike Gibbons, Darcy stated that O'Sullivan had been dismissed as his manager last Tuesday.
He, apparently, forgot that on his trip to New York Bay from the Standard Oil tank ship Cushing he had told several persons aboard a tug, including Tex Rickard, Tom O'Rourke and Charles Harvey, that O'Sullivan and no one else would act in this country as his manager.
To-day Darcy declared that O'Sullivan never had been his manager, but had been employed as agent, and never had been authorized to make matches.


International News
New York, Feb. 16.--Les Darcy's denial that he authorized the signing of articles to box Mike Gibbons in Milwaukee April 10 left promoters in a quandary here today. Darcy flatly refused to talk with Gibbons last Tuesday, and the action of E. T. O'Sullivan in signing for the Gibbons bout, caused the Maitland wonder to rise in wrath. Darcy said today he has dismissed O'Sullivan as his manager. O'Sullivan denied Darcy's right to do so. Each side has retained counsel to settle the difficulty.


NY Tribune, Feb. 16
Les Darcy, the Australian 'cross-country and transoceanic runner, has severed connections with Tim O'Sullivan, the man who smuggled him out of Australia and kept him out of the trenches. He will probably be with the Curley-Jones-Willard syndicate boxing safeties before the month is over.
The following letter from Darcy was received last night:
To the Sporting Editor.
Dear Sir: My attention has been called to an article in the sporting columns of this morning's papers announcing that E. T. O'Sullivan has signed a contract for me to box Mike Gibbons in Milwaukee on April 10.
I beg to notify you that I have made no contract whatever to box Mike Gibbons on April 10 or at any other time. Neither have I authorized E. T. O'Sullivan or any one else to do so in my behalf.
No one has authority to sign articles for me without my approval.
Mr. E. T. O'Sullivan is no longer in my employ, either as trainer or otherwise, having been dismissed Tuesday, February 13, 1917. Yours truly,
LES DARCY.


NY Tribune, Feb. 17
Les us consider the case of James Lester Darcy, the champion of Australia, who arrived here some three months ago. He announced immediately upon landing that he would engage in about three bouts with the best men in his class, ship the profits back to his indigent family and sail for London to enlist for overseas service and fight "for the empire."
After doing a turn on the burlesque circuit Darcy decided that he would box Al McCoy, popularly known as the cheese champion, for the modest sum of $30,000. After that he would look about him for other set-ups and other theatrical engagements. As soon as Darcy's manager, E. T. O'Sullivan, signed him up with Mike Gibbons, whom Darcy regards as dangerous, the Australian hero immediately severed connections with his manager.

 

Senya... What is that stuff?? You said you'd provide some articles inwhich LES DARCY states that O'Sullivan is his manager. You might have to highlight the sentences within... I ceratainly see nothing of consequence.

 

Ok, so we have that clear. I understand. You dont think it matters that the deck is stacked against a visiting fighter. You would like to minimize it as much as possible, I see that, but fairs fair, and winning any way you can at home is part of the game. Thats fine, thats a fundemental difference you and I have in how the sport is and should be conducted. Yet on the one hand you say you dont care who did what as long as the judges and referees arent biased and on the other hand dismiss that thats exactly what was going on in Australia. Ok, thats a wonderful double standard but Im glad we have that clear.

Senya gave you a direct quote. Do you not believe him? His credibility is a lot better than yours when you post fake photos and fake quotes that have no provenance. So because Darcy and Sullivan, two Australian ex-patriots who arrived in the United States illegally didnt wind up in a United States courtroom between the time they split up in February and the time Darcy died a couple of months later you take that as proof there was no contract, verbal or otherwise, yet you dont take Darcy's own words? What was Sully supposed to sue Darcy in court for? Darcy hadnt made enough money to make a lawsuit worth it. Are you a child? Do you understand that you cant just go to court in the United States because its fun. It also takes time simply to get on a docket. Darcy wasnt exactly in the USA for years now was he. What Sullivan supposed to claim in this imaginary court case? Darcy never had a fight between the time he let Sullivan manage his affairs and his death. There was nothing for Sullivan to claim.

So lets get this straight: Darcy needed Sullivan to arrange passage to America (which essentially amounted to hiding on board a tramp steamer) and Sullivan either decided to tag along on what was a miserable and hard trip, for... what? The sea air? Because he wanted to see the world? Why? Lets not be stupid, there was a financial gain in it. Why did Darcy agree to have Sullivan attached at his hip, speak for him, negotiate, etc etc for something like two or three months before they finally parted ways? Because he was lonely? Im not sure I see your logic here. And yet, according to you the Saintly Darcy would have provided for Sullivan financially for... what? Just being a companion? Get real.

Yes Rowlands was nothing special. Why are you trying to paint him as anything more. He had 100 recorded bouts. Of those one hundred he won less than half (and a lot of those losses came against less than stellar competition). Your sole reasoning behind him being something more than a journeyman (and let me just start that I can guarantee I know a damn site more about Rowlands than you, so you might want to ask yourself if you really want to get into this debate) is that he went the distance with Greb, Smith, and Dillon. You seem particularly interested in the fact that he went the distance with Greb which I dont take to be a badge of honor. Greb wasnt a puncher, thats well established. That being said, you might want to realize that in those 100 recorded fights Rowlands was stopped only three times. Two of those three times came at the hands of Greb. Marion Wilson has gone the distance with a lot of marquee names and even a lot of big punchers. That doesnt make him anything more than journeyman at best. If you think that somehow facing Len Rowlands in the relative backwater boxing town of Memphis in an eight rounder is somehow Darcy taking on the world, well, you are sadly deluded.