Rank the Fab 4 1-4

True, but on P4P Duran was a lightweight and by far the older guy when he fought these (mostly much bigger) ATG fighters. He should have been thrashed against all of them, but only Hearns could deliver a convincing beatdown.

 

he was not a small guy. He fought at 154 before Hearns and Leonard ever fought at that weight. Duran fought there as early as 1978.

 

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No, he didn't. Do you even know what you're talking about? At all?

 

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Ray Allen

 

I rank what weight a man wins his first title. A growing fighter starting off low does not matter much. Benitez won his first title at 140 in 1976 and Duran won his first at 135 in 1972. Not far difference, and Benitez outclassed Duran at 154 pounds a year after Benitez first got to the weight, and 4 years after Duran did. Duran lost to all of the fab 4 or 5. Hearns,Leonard,Hagler,Benitez. And people rank him number one of the fab 4? The point is the head to head matchups of the greats is what should get the ranking. And like I have said. Duran lacks a knockout win over a great fighter. I like Duran, but what I do not and cannot accept is people saying he is top 5 ATG. He should have beaten all the fab 4 for a ranking like that. Since he didn't, regardless of the age excuse when he was still young or the size (which he fought at 154 before Benitez,Hearns or Leonard). He lacks wins vs. greats. In age he was not far from Marvin's age. Marvin supposedly was born in 1954 and Duran in 1951, but some people say Marvin was 2 years older. Duran fought Ray when he was 29, Benitez when he was 30 and Hagler and Hearns when he was 32. Not an old man by any stretch, expecially since he fought until he was 50.

I think when people rate Duran highest, they were more impressed with machismo than with actually boxing skills against top fighters. He was great, but his charisma and machismo overrated him, since his resume does not show the best of these 4.. Which shows that ranking fighters is no more than popularity contests. Because in reality Tommy Hearns stopping Pipino Cueves or outboxing Benitez for his 147 and 154 pound titles, and then years later at 175 outboxing Virgil Hill shows more skill than anything Duran ever did, but the machismo is something which is a sports quality which impresses the general sports fan more. But if you study boxing and know who the champions are and see how many title defenses they had, Hearns stopping Cuevas and Duran and outboxing Benitez and Hill is a great accomplishment against elite names. And that makes an ATG. I am surprised boxing fans do not recognize this.

 

I will go
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Duran
Leonard
Hagler
Hearns

 

That isn't what you said.

But, as you can see, you were wrong either way.

Why is that? You figure they'd be ranked on their entire careers (as is typically the custom), without one fighter getting the short end of the stick having fought for over a decade and competed in over 70 bouts (going 71-1 during that time) at a lower weight than any of the rest, before he'd even faced a single member of the Fab 4 (a fight which he won in one of the most impressive displays of all time, no matter how the Leonard apologists such as yourself try to spin it). Something about comparing the head to head results of a past prime natural Lightweight to natural Welterweights/Middleweights in their primes doesn't sound fair to me. Call me crazy, eh?

I suppose that would depend on your definition. I don't see what it proves one way or the other, personally.

Age is just a number in this sport. Surely you acknowledge that over 70-80 fights, combined with constant and excessive weight gaining and draining, can take a toll on a fighter. Or perhaps you're insinuating that Wilfred Benitez was inferior to Davey Moore. He was, after all, just 25 or so at the time.

Really? I was under the impression that he beat Leonard on his first move up to Welterweight. One of the greatest wins of all time. I was also under the impression that he beat Ernesto Marcel at just 18 years of age. One of the most underrated wins of all time.

Again, you should be well aware that age is just a number, unless you really are this obtuse. Not to mention, yet again, the size advantages that all of these men held. Benitez won because he was a better, fresher 154 pounder. Hagler won because he was a better Middleweight. Hearns won because he was a better 154 pounder (we'll leave the rest out of it).

Now I just regret having gotten into this whole debate with you. You might be one of the most one-track, simple-minded people I've ever come across on these forums. You lack any critical thinking ability whatsoever.

 

Based on their records against each other I'd rate them

Leonard
Hagler
Duran
Hearns

All time ranking? pretty much the same except Duran is at the top.

 

Pacquiao









Barrera
Morales







Marquez

 

Duran
Leonard






Hearns
Hagler

 

I have gone over this so much over the years here on eastside boxing. I have given good points to what I believe, and I have not swayed as many on here will attest to. I always figure a man's starting weight as the weight where he started. Simply put, I think Duran lacks the wins against the ATG fighters to rank him as great as people rank him. I rank him 25-30 which is what I always stated. His lightweight career lacks another solid ATG, and then he lost to the greats regardless of age and weight. So how is he ranked 1-5 as most rank him or better than Leonard? Ray beat all the legends. And the Leonard fight was Ray when he was green. Ray fought his fight to make a point, and Ray learned his lesson and easily won the second and third fights with Duran. The point that Duran does not have an answer to a great mover is Wilfred Benitez.

 

By one track you mean someone who believes what he believes from 40 years of seeing Duran fight. And most people who love Duran know that I am stating decent points since they know boxing and know that some of what I say is true, regardless of them denying it. You cannot give Duran a knockout over a great. He doesn't have any. He beat an inexperience Ray Leonard. Was completely dismantled by Benitez ( a fight which people overlook) and Hearns (a fight no one could overlook because of it being a Vegas superfight.) And I might add Duran was fellow 154 point champion when he fought Hearns. The reason I mention the fab4 guys as more important to Duran's ranking than his lightweight competition was because the later guys were much much greater. Even in other sports, how a player responds to other elite situations is what ranks him, elite meaning elite competition. Would Kobe Bryant be great if he didnt have 5 rings? This is why Ray Leonard has to be regarded as the best of the fab 4. Easily. Then maybe Hagler, then Hearns then Duran. Duran lost to them all. If you make the fab 5 with Benitez, Hearns is number 2 after Leonard. I am ranking head to head. But even if you rank Duran's lightweight competition, it does not help him in the overall ranking. Now when Hearns beat Benitez,Cuevas,Duran and Hill in title fight efforts. Find those names in Duran's tittle winning efforts.. You find one, then he gets beaten easily when Ray fights his fight.

 

head to head this is how I would have it, although careerwise I would put Morales over Barrera.