My revised top ten p4p all-time... your thoughts?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by heehoo, Feb 6, 2011.


  1. heehoo

    heehoo TIMEXICAH! Full Member

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    After doing some studying on certain fighters, and at the suggestion of many of the posters here, I have decided to edit my top ten. You were all very helpful in my other thread and I do appreciate it very much, but nonetheless, here is my revised list (again, newspaper decisions I am counting)

    1. Harry Greb - 260-20-17, 48 KO's - Arguably the greatest offensive fighter of all-time, Greb was a whirlwind, who always fired punches from all possible angles, and who never stopped coming forward. The only man to beat the great Gene Tunney, Greb's resume is fully stacked with hall-of-famers and top contenders.

    2. Sam Langford - 217-48-39, 129 KO's - This dynamo is the greatest fighter of all-time never to win a championship. He beat MANY great names of his day, including Sam McVey, Joe Jeanette, and could have been champion at any weight from lightweight to heavyweight. You could put Langford or Greb at the very top, and I'd have ZERO issue with it, both are GIANTS in boxing history, especially when you factor in what both did against much larger men.

    3. Sugar Ray Robinson - 173-19-6, 108 KO's - Beat 9 hall-of-famers and 50 top ten ranked opponents. Won titles at welterweight and middleweight (the latter title he won 5 times).

    4. Henry Armstrong - 149-21-10, 101 KO's - Won titles in three weight divisions, featherweight, lightweight, and welterweight, and held these three titles at the same time briefly. Is arguably the greatest welterweight of all-time.

    5. Ezzard Charles - 93-25-1, 53 KO's - The greatest light-heavyweight of all-time who later won the heavyweight title, Charles was one of the greatest technicians of all-time. Box or punch, he could do it all with the greatest of ease. Charles has one of the most impressive resumes of all-time, with victories over such fighters as Archie Moore, whom Charles beat three times out of three, and also has wins over Jimmy Bivins (4x), Elmer Ray, two victories over Charley Burley(!), two victories over Lloyd Marshall, four victories over Joey Maxim, Gus Lesnevich, and also, victories over Joe Louis and Jersey Joe Walcott, on top of the many other top ten contenders he beat. Criminally underrated in my opinion.

    6. Willie Pep - 229-11-1, 65 KO's - One of boxing's biggest winners, Pep was a very dominant featherweight champion who relied on defense and counter punching to win.

    7. Benny Leonard - 192-19-10, 71 KO's - Leonard is one of the greatest lightweights of all-time. After winning the title, he lost only once in his next 85 fights, a fight against the reigning welterweight champion, Jack Britton, in a fight that many people felt Leonard threw because Leonard did not want to have to hold two world titles at the same time. The Ghetto Wizard was one of the earliest scientific boxers who had GREAT punching power and excellent footwork. He fought and defeated many great names of the day, including Lew Tendler, Johnny Dundee, Willie Ritchie, and a large number of top ten contenders.

    8. Roberto Duran - 103-16, 70 KO's - Arguably the greatest lightweight of all-time who later moved up and won titles at welterweight, light-middleweight, and middleweight.

    9. Bob Fitzsimmons - 71-8-5, 61 KO's - Fitzsimmons is the first fighter to win titles in three divisions, middleweight, heavyweight, and light heavyweight, in that order. Had arguably the greatest left hook in history, and is the smallest-ever heavyweight champion, weighing just 167 pounds. Has notable wins over James J. Corbett, the original Jack Dempsey, Peter Maher, George Gardner, and Tom Sharkey.

    10. Joe Gans - 151-12-18, 96 KO's - One of the all-time great lightweights, fought and defeated many of the best contenders at the time. Gans was also the complete package. He could punch and box with authority and was an adept counter puncher. Has wins over Battling Nelson, Jack Blackburn, Mike "Twin" Sullivan, Frank Erne, and a large number of top ten contenders of the day. Gans is also the first ever African American world champion.

    Let me know what you think. I'd appreciate it.
     
  2. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    I'll jump in and say it's a very good list. The only placements I'd "disagree" with (and even that is too strong) is the last two entries. Many of the forum, and for good reasons, would place fitz in the top 10 but I have trouble doing so. Same with gans, for me he just misses the cut though based on his resume and noted, groundbreaking skills an argument can be made

    btw: George Dixon was the first black champion. Go Canada!!!
     
  3. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Very good list, but I think Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard could join that......
    But lists are subjective by nature......It´s just my opinion anyway.....
     
  4. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    yeah, forgot the ali ommission. again, great list but i'd have trouble putting fitz or gains above ali
     
  5. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    I think perhaps Pep is too high(seriously, there are fighters with better comp out there)
     
  6. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    it's sacrilege to say but yeah...i mean his top wins aren't terribly impressive in their own right. it's more the volume of wins and skills that are clear on film
     
  7. Vic-JofreBRASIL

    Vic-JofreBRASIL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think you could make a case for putting Joe Gans in the top 10......
    But I´m not sure about that....Because I don´t know enough about many of his obscure opponents......
     
  8. Meast

    Meast New Member Full Member

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    A good, solid list.
     
  9. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    But isn't that the opposite of the criteria we always use to judge fighters? Pep had a great record and does look amazing on film....but so does Ricardo Lopez. Obviously there's no comparison in terms of greatness, but i think it's worth mentioning here. Why does Pep deserve such high rankings when he never accomplished some of the astounding weight jumping feats of others? It's not even like Benny Leonard where the quality of opposition is notably high at that single weight...
     
  10. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    i agree and the lopez analogy is especially interesting. personally, i rate him in the top 30 precisely for the reasons you listed. pep is probably the best ever in his weight class, which goes a long a way, and likely had the best defense ever to boot. those two facts, along with his astounding record warrants top 10 placement but his resume is never really addressed. his highest ranked opponent is probably saddler, who bested him 3 out of 4. that has to factor into things a bit
     
  11. heehoo

    heehoo TIMEXICAH! Full Member

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    I guess I'm taken by Pep's record more than anything else...

    Looks like another revision is in the works, but thank you all for input!
     
  12. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If you struggling to put Fitz above Ali, it just means you need to do a bit more reading on Fitz.

    I think it is as good as any list i have ever seen. Fitz is obviously too low, but that is about it. Gans at 10 is a big call, but it isnt a bad call. I think every fighter in that top 10 has a good argument to be there.
     
  13. Vince Voltage

    Vince Voltage Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I commend you for being different. It's quite refreshing, a change from the typical 1)Robinson 2)Armstrong 3) Ali list. Nice work.
     
  14. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    you're right there and his accomplishments are impressive to say the least. but ali is one of the greatest talents i've seen on film, dominating the greatest era in heavyweight boxing and making among the most significant comebacks in the history of the sport. he beat 3 potential top 10 all time heavies, and 2 sure fire ones. i know fitz's weight jumping, punching prowess and skills put him on an elite level but for me, ali is a small step above
     
  15. di tullio

    di tullio Guest

    Great avatar :good