If Shogun beats Jones , what is the better option ??...

Who has better submission skills GSP, Silva, or Rua?

Who has the better striking GSP, Silva, or Rua?

Who has the better wrestling GSP, Silva, or Rua?

GSP has great wrestling and uses top control better than anyone else, has he submitted anyone without beating them into submission first?

Gsp's threat of the takedown helps him keep fighters guessing and splits their focus on tdd and striking defence.

anderson shouldn't worry about defending the takedown it will happen but he can hurt gsp on his feet, or submit gsp off of his back.

 

I agree.

 

I'll challenge that and say there's a huge difference in striking power between Silva and GSP. Silva has shown that he can repeatedly get guys out of there with one strike. Belfort, Griffin, Irwin are just a few examples, and Franklin, well it may have been two or three. GSP has shown no such ability. THAT would be the difference if they met and the only recourse GSP would have would be to take Silva down at the beginning of each round, cause he damn sure isn't going to win going toe to toe with him in a stand up contest.

 

Now you're simply throwing in a variable and making it to be a category, when that's not the case. We're talking about overall skill and "power" isn't necessarily a skill, although in a very loose sense (and I doubt very much you meant this) it is. I concede that GSP is not as good a striker as Anderson, I don't think there is anyone who would reasonably argue the point. My point is that GSP doesn't necessarily have a weakness while everyone else seems to. Jon Fitch would be a guy that doesn't seem to have a significant weakness either, just that GSP is the 2.0 version of Fitch.

 

See what you're doing? You're conflating very different things. Change the question to, "Who has the most complete skill set and applies it to the greatest effect?" You already know the answer.

Thiago Alves was supposed to destroy GSP standing up. What happened? GSP toyed with him on the feet. Same thing with BJ's supposed "great striking", and his great ground game (which is predicated upon winning the Mundials in 2000 (gi and the year 2000)), what happened? GSP maneuvered with ease. I even predicted he would do just that prior to the fight having taken place. I said, "it all comes down to this. Is GSPs top game better then BJs guard (bottom) game." The answer was clearly no as evidenced by all of his other fights.

The only legitimate knocks on GSPs record was being submitted by Hughes at UFC 50 (I think he was a blue or purple belt at the time) by overcommitting to a Kimura and an unexpected TKO by Serra at UFC 69 (which was no fluke, and it bugs me to no end that Serra doesn't get credit for this). That's it. Two things. If that's all you can really point to in a guys career, I'd say he's doing something right. Name one time since UFC 74 that one could reasonably say, "Oh ****, Georges might be in trouble here!" while in a fight. There hasn't been one. He's been fighting the highest caliber opponents of anyone in the sport's history. He's fought more P4P (which I hate the idea of) guys and more Top 10 and Top 5 guys. He's completely shut all of them down in every single facet of the game.

Now, you can say, which I'm sure you will, "but he doesn't finish." Okay, fine...but look at the guys he's fighting. Name one other guy in the UFC who has won against Jon Fitch, let alone stop him. (You can't) Thiago Alves? Nope. Koscheck? (Thiago was an illegitimate stoppage, clearly) These guys are absurdly difficult to defeat, let alone finish. B.J.? Stopped him. Hughes? KO and Submission (So beautiful at 79). You might call into question the Dan Hardy fight but I'd just say Georges was being a bit stupid (although I can see his reasons) by listening to Renzo and his silly notion of "only think about control, don't think about hitting". Clearly works in grappling competitions, as it's illegal, but not optimal in MMA.

He has dominated the highest level of competition while taking almost zero damage and, at no point, being in any significant danger. Can Silva or Rua make any of those claims? Not even remotely close.

 

gsp does have a weakness, when hurt he falls apart, his defence is not so great either. evidice can be seen in the first bj penn fight in the serra fight as well. He also got hit by more than a few right hands in the fitch fight in the second round.

Gsp controls the momentum of a fight better than anybody with wrestling dont confuse that with him not having a weakness.

 

And your evidence of this is...? UFC 69? That's like saying he has poor submission defense because Hughes submitted him at UFC 50.

This argument is uneducated and ridiculous at best.

And perhaps you're misunderstanding that I'm saying. I'm not saying he can't be beat, because I think he can. But what I'm saying is that there is no glaring void in his skill sets. He's extremely skilled in all aspects of the game. You can't point to one aspect of his skills and say, reasonably, "Oh, for sure that's a weakness".

 

you know who else cant make those claims fedor. winning everyround and never being put in a bad spot doesnt make you the greatest. It is a good thing but I think people make to much of it.

Koschek was stopped twice in his career both were legitimate, you dont want to accept that im not sure what else I can do for you.

Thiago alves was also stopped before. dan hardy has also been stopped before. cut out the bull****.

 

Actually, yes. Twice. Once by submission in 2005 and the other in early 2009, which to any reasonable standard was not a KO. I don't recall him being unconscious for any length of time. As I've said, bad stoppage. They're lots of them, that was one.

And as for Thiago Alves, he was stopped once in the UFC and that was his debut fight against Spencer Fisher in 2005, and then again by Jon Fitch when they first fought in the middle of 2006. Aside from that...

Just so you know, and I see this often, by pointing out one thing, which isn't even anything I didn't already address because all I noted is that these guys are notoriously difficult to stop, which they are, it does not invalidate the argument, but, perhaps you didn't attempt to invalidate anything else because there isn't a way to do that. Just throwing that out there...

Bull****, huh? Neat.

Edit - And clearly you're selective reading because I didn't say anything about Dan Hardy aside from the fact that Georges ****ed up in listening to Renzo. I don't think, nor suggest, that Hardy falls into the category of "notoriously difficult to stop".

 

your confusing a fighter that always is in control of a fight using his wrestling with the best well roundedness. its not the same thing.

chuck liddell did the same thing to many fighters with his striking and tdd he was not the most well rounded either it is clear to see in liddell case I am just saying it is SIMILAR with gsp.


ps koscheck stoppage was legitimate.

 

You're drawing a false equivalent. I'm not doing that in the slightest.

Chuck used his wrestling to avoid the ground game entirely and to make use of his greatest skill.

GSP uses all of the skills. Striking, clinch, and grappling. We've seen him outstrike the likes of Alves and B.J. (and break Koschecks orbital bone in two places) out wrestle guys like Koscheck, Fitch and Hughes and out grapple guys that have great grappling in MMA such as Fitch, B.J. and Hughes (as much as I dislike the guy, Hughes does have very good MMA BJJ).

They're not the same or even similar. Chucks uses counter wrestling to avoid an aspect of fighting to maximize his chance of winning the fight using his striking while GSP uses all of his skills to maximum efficiency to neutralize his opponents skills and give himself the greatest chance to win the fight wherever that may be.

They're hugely different.

P.S. No, it wasn't. A guy sitting up near the middle of the cage isn't knocked out.

 

ok gsp uses his wrestling to control opponents, he keeps them right where he wants them using wrestling! thats his strength and he keeps it there.

ps Koscheck fell to the ground face first unconscious, same way Tyson Griffin did. fair legitimate stoppage.

 

Incorrect. GSP uses his wrestling to control where the fight takes place. You're not going to use wrestling to control someone while striking. He still has to strike, and strike well. You take someone down, you still have to have a sophisticated knowldge of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. You're not going to outstrike Alves because you can wrestle. This whole line of thinking is ridiculous.

P.S. I remember him falling on his butt into a sort of sitting position, but I could be wrong, I'll have to review it again.

 

you just dont get it do you?

Im too lazy to spell it out for you.

 

Of course I do. There are a few levels on which one could interpret what you say. Now you can say you meant he uses his wrestling to control his opponent, which is to say that he controls the fight by either the threat of his wrestling or by actually utilizing his wrestling.

What you don't seem to be getting is that he still has to utilize his other skills. He still has to strike. He still has to use his Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

I should be too lazy to be the one spelling it all out, but I have anyway.

I have answered everything you've put forward and shown all of your "arguments" to either be shaky or invalid, yet I'm the one that isn't getting it. Fascinating.