Was Frazier mentally beat by Foreman?

I don't think Joe knew he was in trouble because he just kept getting up, rather quickly and trying to shake off his legs. Before the first knockdown, Frazier landed some solid punches in the first minute until Foreman kept shoving him off to get separation. George smartly stayed on top of Frazier after Mercante gave him his first and only warning, especially when Dick Saddler jumped up on the apron.

 

Joe just had no idea what he was getting in with.

We now know that George Foreman, whaling away with all his might and malice, in his prime, is one of the top 3 most dangerous heavyweight punchers ever.

Joe didn't know that. Watching the fight, an underprepared, but supremely confident Frazier comes out to do business, and ends up on the receiving end of a furious beating. I think he was stunned by what was unfolding after that first knockdown, and that was all the opening an edgy and ready Big George needs, regardless of who he is fighting.

Frazier was done in WAY more by ego than fear. Any fear that was in Joe was of the "How do I handle the buzzsaw that is now trying to kill me?" variety.

 

foreman blasted frazier. he did an excelent job. George hurt joe first and stayed on top, Frazier could not cope with that power and simply did not have the timing any longer to compeat at that level. Had Joe still been pin point sharp and hurt george like gullick did and been fresh enough to time him coming in it would have been a different fight. George had power but he fought like an ape, it was a gamble to put him in with joe and it paid off because he hurt frazier early. Frazier was never the same.

 

Even a peak 1971 Frazier would have lost to the 1973/74 Foreman. Simply a nightmare match up of styles for Joe.

 

I always thought that Joe damaged his ankle in a motorbike accident.

 

Frazier could fight only one way , coming at you ,recipe for disaster against a bigger, stronger,harder hitting opponent.
Joe hit Foreman with shots in both fights ,they did not even register on
George.
Frazier tried ducking and diving in their second fight ,Foreman, throwing straighter punches, than in their first encounter, had no trouble finding him ,and his jab controlled Frazier.

Frazier did not win a round in either fight, he was over matched.

If Frazier stayed off, he gets jabbed to death,if he comes in ,he gets decapitated by uppercuts.


Best Frazier ever, gets thrashed by Foreman, end of.

 

Frazier didn't have the physical tools to keep a beast like Foreman off him. Too much bob and weaving, but little power to keep George at bay. George was the first proper super heavy to come along. Joe just needed more than excellent conditioning, to survive a onslaught against someone as devastating as Foreman...

 

This was because frazier was not sharp enough to conect as well as he needed to make the required impresion to make it a competative fight. I belive there was a time when he would have been able to exploit george foremans weak defence but that time had passed. without being able to make an impresion on george he was a sitting duck. Styles make fights but frazier had been special enough at one time to overcome george.

Frazier was overmatched at that time but nobody knew it. thats why george was 3-1 underdog. If george was so stylisticly wrong for Frazier why was he a 3-1 outsider? Against a Frazier of 1968-70 george would be 10-1.

No way. George was a special talent himself but was facing a fighter who was no longer special when they fought. Frazier did what he could with what he had left. There was a lot of inferior fighters who came straight at george and gave him more trouble than frazier did so why not a peak Frazier?

 

and yet george was well under 225. too little power? try telling that to ali!

 

Frazier was shot,Frazier was finished, it goes on and on.Frazier was 29 years old the same age as Ali was when he fought Joe with 18 rds of ring action after 3 and a 1/2 years retirement. Frazier never saw the day he could take a prime Foreman.
Durham took George, because he thought he was a raw, green clumsy kid whom Frazier would get inside of and tear up.
Frazier took George because his manager did not want Ali again, an Ali who had more ring action under his belt.
Ali gave Frazier life and death ,and put him in the hospital Durham knew an Ali, with more confidence in his legs and stamina would be tougher second time around.
Durham created the situation by feeding Frazier 2 no hopers in Stander ,and Daniels, cheapening the title by fighting 2 unranked nobodies.
Look at whom Ali was fighting ,during the same period.

Frazier was complacent ,and cocky, he had fought the fight of his life against Ali,and thought he was invincible.
Fighting nobodies was no preparation for George.
Frazier had 30 fights and, just 155rds of ring competition when he fought Foreman.
Every time their fights are discussed ,the fan boys wheel out all the excuses.He was half blind, unfocused, out of shape. .
Ali had bad hands for the majority of his career , blood clots on his legs at one time , a broken jaw in a fight.It's BOXING.
If Frazier wanted to avoid tough challengers and fight 2 nobodies and let himself get soft that's his fault ,same as Ali getting fat, and old fighting **** fights with Young , at least Ali was mid 30's when he started slipping.
Frazier gets too much slack imo.

 

You didn't mentally beat Frazier. Foreman just physically outmatched him is all. One of the great "styles make matchups" cases.

 

That's it in a nutshell, Frazier's balls were too big for him to be intimidated mentally, or physically, by anyone.
No doubt they still are.

 

October 1972

'FRAZIER MULLS $750,000 OFFER TO FIGHT FOREMAN'

Jack O'Connell, president of Astrodome Championship Enterprises, Inc., offered
World Heavyweight Champion Joe Frazier $750,000 to fight #2 contender,
George Foreman in the Houston Astrodome.

O'Connell said, Foreman the Gold-medalist in the 1968 Olympics, has
accepted the offer. Yank Durham, Frazier's managers said his fighter
was offered $770,000 to fight in Madsion Square Garden, but he does not want
to fight in New York because of the high tax-rate of the state.

Last month, O'Connell offered Joe Frazier $500,000, but Yank Durham said that offer
was unacceptable.

 

Disagree.

Look at the difference in the Joe of 68- 70 and the Joe of 73 that lost his title to George. Take nothing away from Foreman, beating Frazier was one of his greatest wins but this wasn't the same fighter that was rolling over everyone up to the FOTC. Foreman himself said in interviews that he wouldn't have been able to beat Frazier if he fought him earlier. This version of Joe was faster, better conditioned and harder to hit with quicker head movement.

Foreman will also tell you that the hooks Joe landed in both fights against him were stinging punches that hurt. To say that Joe's punches didn't register against George isn't true at all. I don't know which fight in Uniondale that you watched, but Joe didn't bob and weave as much as he did in the first fight. He backed up, jabbed and tried to box a little more despite not having the legs do it and after leaving almost everything he had left in Manilla. Maybe you're confusing him slipping punches because Futch had him doing that a little more after Durham died, albeit too late in his career.

The best Frazier gives Foreman a rougher and tougher evening, especially if he's able to get inside and work the body. Foreman would be forced to fight and not hold or wrestle with the ref doing his job properly. Again, not saying Frazier wins, but I wouldn't necessarily give the victory to Foreman each time. If Joe makes it out of the early rounds, the fight turns in his favour. That's a given, considering the stamina factor and George's propensity to tire.

 

Read Sports Illustrated, a week before the January 1973 fight.

Joe had no other plan, than to go out and try to knock-out Big George in the
1st Round.
Joe said, 'Foreman has no jab, and once you back him up, he has no defense'.

Asked why he didn't watch any fight films of Foreman, Joe stated, 'I don't need
to know what he can do, I'm only concerned of what I can do.
I'm going to take him out in the First Round. George said he was ready while I was in Omaha, and he said he was ready in New Orleans, well he better be ready here
in Kingston.'

'I have to hurry up and get Ali, because he's shot, and I'm worried that somebody is going to knock him off, and ruin any chance for a big money bout.'

Ken Norton #7 ranked Heavyweight on George Foreman before the Frazier fight.
'George Foreman is nothing, as this fight will a complete waste of time.