Had Frazier won the Thrilla in Manilla...

I think his legacy was sealed with beating Foreman. Everything afterwards is just icing on the cake.

 

The Foreman fight was the thrilling final act,and the Manilla one was,what should have been,the encore.

 

I would still have Ali at #1.

However, Frazier would move up from #9 to #6.

 

clay doesnt rank #1 one ali could not beat young, young robbed with shavers and ali. ali could not beat shavers , shavers did kick one ass of ali. ali could not beat spinks in the 2 fights, he lost to one pathetic holmes and berbick. clay would get knocked out by foreman in manila.

 

:blood

 

Had Joe Frazier won,,,,,,,,,,,,

Heads back to America, and is greeted with cheers, and labeled 'The Great Warrior'.

Muhammad Ali clammors for a rematch, in Greece, where a Greek Shipping Tycoon
is willing to put up $12,000,000.

But, Smokin Joe, decides to take a tune-up in Philadelphia , versus little-known
Jimmy Young. In a shocker, Jimmy Young pecks and pokes Joe through-out, only to
lose a controversial decision.

Joe, decides to retire, and decides to open up a chain of smoke-shops, called
'Smokin Joe's'.

Muhammad Ali, unable to get a rematch with Joe, and unwilling to fight Ken Norton
for the vacant title, gets a gig as a daytime Talk-Show host, opposite the
Mike Douglas Show.

Later, Muhammad Ali, switches gears, and quits the Talk-Show gig, in favor of a
Game-Show, and takes over a host of 'Let's Make a Deal', replacing Monty Hall, who ran into a
problem in his private life, when he was caught in a motel room with a sheep.

 

see nothing wrong with that scenario

 

I don't rate Ali as number 1.
I don't think losing to Frazier in the 3rd fight would diminish his standing in my eyes much at all. It would be more significant as a great comeback for Frazier.

Ali needs to beat Norton more convincingly in '73 and '76 to be rated higher. To be honest, I'm not sure he ever really beat Norton.

 

fair opinion but i could not see how norton won the second fight. close but clear and one of the easiest "tough to score" fights ive ever seen

 

If you says so.
But I think I scored it even.

 

I think it stays the same for me with Ali #1 and Joe #2.

Im factoring in that Ali's last great performance being Frazier 3, and his standing in the game was already sealed, much like,IMO, Joe's 2nd win against Walcotts was his last great performance. For both guys, anything after these respective fights didnt affect their respective legacies . Interestingly enough, both were only a few months apart agewise in these fights .

 

I think all agree, Muhammad Ali never did 'beat' Ken Norton.

vs. Norton I (clearly Kenny)
vs. Norton II (a draw if there ever was one)
vs. Norton III (open for debate)

Two evenly matched fighters, when opposing one another.

 

If Ali loses to Frazier in Manila, he's certainly not even a sure no.1 for the period 1970 - '75, seeing as Frazier would have dominance over him, and Norton would be 1-1 with him on official scores. And Ali's champion for less than a year in his post-layoff career.

I feel Ali gets a little bit overrated in the 70s, off of the Foreman fight (a great win, no doubt). Many of his 'tour' fights were easy pickings.

Joe Louis, just lined they up and knocked them out, year after year. Any controversial win was rematched and he proved his point with interest with a devastating KO. Year after year.

 

No. Ali withstanding Frazier's last stand is a large part of what made him as great as he was.