Does Big Nog have a strong case for #2 p4p of all-time?

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by horst, Feb 12, 2011.


Page 1 of 3
  1. horst

    horst Guest

    Fedor is the GOAT, I don't think there is any disputing that at this point in time.


    Which brings up the interesting question of who deserves to be number 2.


    I suppose Anderson Silva, Georges St Pierre and maybe one or two others have a legitimate case for the second spot.


    But I think my own choice would be Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira.


    Consider his major wins:


    Cro-Cop
    Josh Barnett
    Fabricio Werdum
    Sergei Kharitonov
    Mark Coleman
    Ricco Rodriguez
    Heath Herring
    Dan Henderson
    Tim Sylvia


    Other wins:


    Bob Sapp
    Valentijn Overeem
    Jeremy Horn
    Gary Goodridge
    Semmy Schilt
    Randy Couture



    His only losses before he was pretty obviously well declined (especially in terms of punch resistance) were a split decision to Dan Henderson (avenged by submission), to Fedor, and a split decision to Barnett (avenged by UD).


    Thoughts? :bbb
     
    horst, Feb 12, 2011
    horst, Feb 12, 2011
    #1
  2. achillesthegreat

    achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE Full Member

    37,070
    29
    Jul 21, 2004
    he's the second best heavyweight ever behind fedor.
     
    achillesthegreat, Feb 12, 2011
    achillesthegreat, Feb 12, 2011
    #2
  3. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

    28,518
    82
    Sep 3, 2007
    Yes he does, he`s a lock for p4p top 10, Fedor is undisputed no1 & there is little between the rest of the top 10 so yes, Nog in his prime only lost to Fedor in his prime & was never close to being KO`d or submitted in 3 fights... in fact his sub attempts in those fights had Fedor fighting defensively (from a submission grappling point of view, not striking, Fedor was dominant there)

    Ps. he was very green when he lost to Hendo & had started his decline IMO when he lost to then beat Barnett.

    I personally have Sakuraba at no2 but Nogueira has as good of an argument as anyone, Sak included.
     
    Bill Butcher, Feb 12, 2011
    Bill Butcher, Feb 12, 2011
    #3
  4. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

    28,518
    82
    Sep 3, 2007
    Yep, this ^ too.

    I dont think an serious MMA fan could dispute this.
     
    Bill Butcher, Feb 12, 2011
    Bill Butcher, Feb 12, 2011
    #4
  5. scurlaruntings

    scurlaruntings ESB 2002 Club Full Member

    35,621
    12
    Jul 19, 2004
    Absolutely. First PRIDE heavyweight champion. The best BJJ heavyweight of all times. UFC champion as well in the twilight of his career. And a who's who list of great wins. Before Fedor there was Big Nog!
     
    scurlaruntings, Feb 12, 2011
    scurlaruntings, Feb 12, 2011
    #5
  6. zarman

    zarman Guest

    Definitely p4p top 5. If it weren't for Fedor he would no doubt be number 1.
     
    zarman, Feb 12, 2011
    zarman, Feb 12, 2011
    #6
  7. sugarngold

    sugarngold RIDDUM Full Member

    18,550
    5
    Jun 10, 2007
    Listing Randy Couture as "other wins" is some serious bull****. That man's records speaks for itself. And yes, I do think there is a strong case for Nogueira as the 2nd best heavyweight ever and possibly the second best p4p.
     
    sugarngold, Feb 12, 2011
    sugarngold, Feb 12, 2011
    #7
  8. Ubersteve

    Ubersteve The Main Event Mafia Full Member

    2,415
    0
    Jun 24, 2007
    I'd say Hendo has a pretty good case for #2 himself.
     
    Ubersteve, Feb 12, 2011
    Ubersteve, Feb 12, 2011
    #8
  9. moreorless

    moreorless Active Member Full Member

    1,346
    0
    Sep 19, 2010
    To be fair I think Randy like Nog was well past his best by the time the fight happened.

    The turning point for Nog was IMHO that 3rd match with Heath, he was never going to have THAT long a prime given the punishment he'd taken but that kick aged him overnight. Kind of sums Nog up that he actually managed to win the match which ended his run at the very top of the sport.
     
    moreorless, Feb 12, 2011
    moreorless, Feb 12, 2011
    #9
  10. horst

    horst Guest

    If Nog had beaten Couture in the early 2000s, the mid 2000s, or even as late as 2007/8, of course I'd rank it as a major win, but Nog beat a well-declined version. Come on man, compare the Couture who got a gift vs Brandon Vera to the Couture who was beating the likes of Liddell, Ortiz and Belfort a few years back - a different fighter entirely.

    I don't count Nog's losses to Mir and Velasquez as major black marks against him because I believe was seriously declined by then, so it would be hypocritical to not mention them but to then mention Couture as a major win when they occurred in the same time period.
     
    horst, Feb 12, 2011
    horst, Feb 12, 2011
    #10
  11. horst

    horst Guest

    I rate Hendo very highly, but I think #2 is a bit of a stretch for him.
     
    horst, Feb 12, 2011
    horst, Feb 12, 2011
    #11
  12. sugarngold

    sugarngold RIDDUM Full Member

    18,550
    5
    Jun 10, 2007
    How about Randy Couture? He lost to Nogueira head to head but has been winning titles up and down the weight scale which is the definition of pound for pound; winning regardless of the weight.
     
    sugarngold, Feb 12, 2011
    sugarngold, Feb 12, 2011
    #12
  13. Ubersteve

    Ubersteve The Main Event Mafia Full Member

    2,415
    0
    Jun 24, 2007
    Hendo's record is more impressive than Randy's imo. What I especially like about Hendo is the 0s he's taken off people. He took Nog's, Babalu's, Ninja's. Up and down weights with wins against some top tier guys. His losses aside from Misaki always come against the cream too.
     
    Ubersteve, Feb 12, 2011
    Ubersteve, Feb 12, 2011
    #13
  14. Will Cooling

    Will Cooling Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,170
    0
    Aug 2, 2010
    The win against Sapp really should be listed as a major win...whatever you think about the joke that Sapp eventually became he really was a beast in that fight and Nog showed his greatness to withstand the assault and come back.
     
    Will Cooling, Feb 12, 2011
    Will Cooling, Feb 12, 2011
    #14
  15. horst

    horst Guest

    I rank Henderson above Couture too, for sure.
     
    horst, Feb 12, 2011
    horst, Feb 12, 2011
    #15
Page 1 of 3