Johnson Willard: Dive or KO

During his lifetime, Johnson tried to use that still news photograph showing him lying on the floor with his gloves positioned over his head as proof he was fully conscious and shielding his eyes from the sun. Then, in "50 Years at Ringside," Nat Fleischer countered this by showing Billy Conn adopting the same posture after being flattened by Louis with no sun shining overhead. Then, the year following the publications of Fleischer's autobiography, the complete film of Willard-Johnson came to light after missing for decades and thought to be lost. The entirety of that bout has spent a great deal of time on youtube, and few if any who have viewed it doubt that it was absolutely on the level.

If Johnson had still been alive when the film of Havana surfaced, he might have died from embarrassment. Willard did live to have the validity of his performance vindicated in an era where Marciano and Jeffries were thought to have set the heavyweight standard for endurance.

 

The fight was on the level Johnson had a big bet on himself to win.

No one goes 26 rds in tropical heat,especially at the age of 37, if they are tanking it.
Johnson tried to stop the giant, but Willard in the best shape of his life,absorbed his shots and kept coming .
Johnson ran out of gas, and lost heart ,though in front after 22rds, he knew he could not stop the cowboy ,and that he could not last the unrealistically scheduled 45rds,everything was stacked against him, he put up a hell of a fight but was ultimately worn down

Immediately after the fight he was gracious in defeat.He did not claim he laid down until later, selling his confession to Nat Fleischer for $ 250,when he was on his uppers.

 

I'm very much convinced it was legit. In more of a regulation-length bout it's a shut-out, hell, in a 20-rounder it's a shutout, but at that point in his life and out in that heat, Willard simply outlasted the older man and put him down.

 

D, I agree. The fight was on the LEVEL.I remember in the 1940s,after they found the "missing" film in Cuba,seeing the bout clip in a documentary by
Nat Fleischer called "Kings of the Ring ".Johnson hit Willard with everything for most of the 26 round bout.But Big Jess was biding his time,and in the 26th round hit Johnson with a straight right hand that flattened Lil Arthur.
By the way, this 37 year old Johnson would have easily licked 36 year old Ali.
No contest...26 rounds in a blazing sun with the prime powerful underated
Willard, was quite a feat in my book...

 

Everybody I know who has viewed the speed corrected projected movie films (as opposed to inferior quality videotape or youtube footage) of Willard-Moran and Willard-Floyd Johnson as well as Havana are surprised that Jess shows to better advantage than they are lead to believe by Toledo and some written accounts of Willard. (In fact, when footage of the Floyd Johnson bout showed up on youtube, a number of commentators were startled by the performance of big Jess.) Certainly not an ATG, but competent, with better speed and skills than expected. Film of winning efforts certainly help counter adverse literary critiques, and we have the opportunity to judge maligned figures like Willard and Carnera for ourselves. (Incidentally, I tend to lean towards Jess over Primo via 15 round UD. I think Willard was faster, sturdier and better coordinated at his best. Both could deal with opponents who matched their stature, as Jess did with McCarty, Dailey and Morris, and Primo with Campolo and Impellittiere. I believe Willard was superior though.)

 

It was a KO


I dont think Johnson was unconscious. But it was a just as much a KO as Ali on Foreman.



Willard = criminally underrated. His fight with Floyd is one of the greatest comeback I have heard about

 

The whole "he took a dive because he was shilding his eyes argument" is so dumb. For one your arms can kind of just land that way...but beyond that you can still be "knocked out" to the point of not being able to get up but still have the basic survival instincts to put your arms over your eyes to block UV rays from buring out your cornea. Guys get knocked out all the time and are still somewhat with it. Knockouts where the guy is totally out...like Pacquiao Hatton are more the exception not the rules.

 

lol


That, and he never shielded his eyes from the sun once. The shadow goes to his chest lol

 

Johnson was worn out and KO'd, why would he wait to take a dive and endure the punishment...The arm over the eyes is more of an indication that he was going to attempt to rise if he was faking it he would have played dead and kept them closed.

 

If I could have a dollar for every fighter I have ever seen in the same position as Johnson was after that KO, I wouldn't be at work right now. It was a monster right hand that sent Johnson down. One of the most far-fetched of the generally far-fetched contentions of the Johnson Public Relations Machine.

 

Jack Johnson is a hugely devisive figure on this forum.

Just about the only point that his suporters and detractors seem to agree upon is that the Willard loss was almost certainly on the level.

There is a good reason for this.

 

I think he just said "f*ck it, I gave my best, couldn´t take him out and he just isn´t getting tired in this heat while I am. They want me to lose, so be it." Perhaps he could have continued for a few rounds but he surely wouldn´t have won.

 

I believe it was dive. The reason I believe because this was 1915, were blacks at the time suffered deep racism. Johnson, was exile from the United States and faced jail if he retired. Johnson was told if he fixed the fixed charges would be dropped and he could return to the U.S. and still make money. Johnson, had to be sured the fixed money was there before he took the dive. After round 25 he was promised was there and he had his wife escorted from the ring before the k.o was to happen. As soon as Johnson was knocked down he had his arm over his eyes and after the count he stretched out his legs and got up immediately.