A minor boxing mystery to solve-need input

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by burt bienstock, Mar 29, 2010.


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  1. ricardoparker93

    ricardoparker93 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Hi Burt was just watching the Dykes vs Robinson fight on youtube and the announcer mentions about a fight at the coney island veledrome with i'm afraid to say Billy Brown immediately before the Dykes fight.

    The clip is at 0.52 of the video.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLka0hGIJWY&feature=related[/ame]
     
    ricardoparker93, Oct 26, 2010
    ricardoparker93, Oct 26, 2010
    #61
  2. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes R , I know that Ray Robinson fought a Billy Brown Sept 4,1950 at
    the old defunct Coney Island Veledrome...That was NOT the fight I saw..
    I saw Ray Robinson decision BOBBY DYKES at the Coney Island Veledrome
    with my friend...I was sure at the time that this fight was their second
    time they fought each other, probably a few years after their first bout
    in Chicago in 1950...It is a mystery that may never be solved...I recall that fight as fairly dull. I have asked for help solving this puzzle, to no
    avail...But see that fight I did...Thanks, b.b.
     
    burt bienstock, Oct 26, 2010
    burt bienstock, Oct 26, 2010
    #62
  3. Jack Dempsey

    Jack Dempsey Legend Full Member

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    Apologies for dragging this old thread up but I'm just watching the ESPN Ringside on SRR and on it the reporter and SRR biographer Dave Anderson has said that he saw SRR fight at the Coney Island Velodrome on Labour Day afternoon in 1947 against Billy Brown from Hartford, either Boxrec is wrong or he is as they have the fight listed as 1950
     
    Jack Dempsey, Feb 22, 2011
    Jack Dempsey, Feb 22, 2011
    #63
  4. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    JD, thanks for your interest in this BOXING MYSTERY of my life. I have long given up on solving this true,"Bermuda Triangle" of mine. When i started in ESB, i asked our posters for help in solving my old quandry. Our posters
    graciously tried to help, but to no avail. Sherlock Holmes is long dead,and unfortunately left no heir...
    To put this mystery in a nutshell, I and a pal saw Ray Robinson fight right handed Bobby Dykes in old Coney Island Velodrome,NY.It was an outside Arena and it was a non-title bout.Robinson won a non-exciting decision.I recall Sugar Ray coming late to his dressing room,and the crowd was restless, but i,and others peering down from the bleachers saw Robinbson and his entourage arrive in his Fuscia colored cadillac,and hustled into his dressing room. the fight started and BOBBY DYKES[who I saw before] from Tampa Fl,
    lost a dull decision. I am aware that in Chicago,Nov 8,1950,bobby dykes lost a decision to Ray Robinson.I saw that many times on youtube. I am sure that
    the fight I SAW between Robinson /Dykes at the Coney Island Veledrome
    was after 1950,and was their SECOND fight, which alas, is not in the record books...But see it WE did... I am also aware that Ray Robinbson is listed as fighting a Billy Brown Sept 4,1950 in coney Island, but I saw Bobby Dykes
    a tall lean boxer NOT Billy Brown, fight Robinson, as sure as i am typing this.
    This mystery I believe may never be solved as Robbie and Bobby Dykes are long dead.As jack Dempsey brought this up today on his post, i feel obligated
    to respond, but with no hope of a solution..
    One possibility is that Bobby Dykes subbed for another opponent.that late
    afternoon of the fight I saw in the early 1950s,before that old arena closed.
    sherlock holmes, i need you:patsch Cheers JD...
     
    burt bienstock, Feb 22, 2011
    burt bienstock, Feb 22, 2011
    #64
  5. Jack Dempsey

    Jack Dempsey Legend Full Member

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    No worries Burt, thought it was relevant to the original query you made, I'm in the process of acquribg some more Ring Magazines from 1950 so maybe I'll be able to shed some light once they arrive
     
    Jack Dempsey, Feb 23, 2011
    Jack Dempsey, Feb 23, 2011
    #65
  6. Boucher

    Boucher Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Boucher, Feb 23, 2011
    Boucher, Feb 23, 2011
    #66
  7. Bobby Sinn

    Bobby Sinn Bulimba Bullant Full Member

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    Burt... to close the gap, was SRR World Middlechamp at the time??

    The "Australian Ring Digest" has ample American fight records..

    It may be in them. I don't feel like trudging through 4 years worth, but I'm happy to check all 1951 or 52..
     
    Bobby Sinn, Feb 23, 2011
    Bobby Sinn, Feb 23, 2011
    #67
  8. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Thank you B. I recall in my mind ,that Robinson was not a champ at that time.
    As posted before I am fairly certain that the two,Robbie and Bobbie[rhymes]
    fought once before. this bout i remember thinking took place in the same Arena that Jim Jeffries and Tom Sharkey fought in 1899,Coney Island Veledrome,near the Steeplechase and the ocean.But Bobby see it I did, but
    I doubt that this mystery will ever be solved.:good
     
    burt bienstock, Feb 23, 2011
    burt bienstock, Feb 23, 2011
    #68
  9. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    JD Thank you. I have some old Ring Mags from the early 1950s,back home,
    but I didn't find this bout listed.So FAR..I believe this fight was thrown together at the last moment ,a few years after their hook-up in chicago in 1950. That is what my intuition tells me..
     
    burt bienstock, Feb 23, 2011
    burt bienstock, Feb 23, 2011
    #69
  10. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    burt bienstock, Feb 23, 2011
    burt bienstock, Feb 23, 2011
    #70
  11. blundell

    blundell Active Member Full Member

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    One day Burt, I will find the truth for you.
     
    blundell, Dec 15, 2015
    blundell, Dec 15, 2015
    #71
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Box rec lists ****s as orthodox and both it and Robinson's biography," Pound For Pound ,"written by his son list jus the one fight with ****s.:huh

    http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Bobby_****s
     
    mcvey, Dec 15, 2015
    mcvey, Dec 15, 2015
    #72
  13. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Here's the backstory on how the Coney Island fight with Billy Brown was put together, according to Teddy Brenner in "Only the Ring was Square" (p.41). I don't own the book, but I was able to put this together from the excerpts I found online via google:

    “ It was an old outdoor arena in which they ran bicycle races for many years. Now it was going to be torn down and I had one more show to put in the place. I went to Robinson and asked him if he would fight for me for a $1,000 purse. “You're kiddin'," he said. "I just got $57,000 to fight Kid Gavilan, what can I get fighting in Coney Island?" “It's for the Sports Lodge of B'nai B'rith," I said. “It's a new lodge and it needs to get started, and I thought I could put you in Coney Island and make some money for the lodge." “That's asking a lot," Robinson said. “You know, Max Kase is the president of the lodge and he's the sports editor of the New York Journal-American. It wouldn't hurt you with him if you agreed to fight on the benefit show." Robinson thought about it and said, “Teddy, go out and see how much money you can get for me and then we'll talk about it… I went to a radio station in Philadelphia that used to broadcast fights on Monday nights and I told the boss there I could get Sugar Ray for him, would he be interested. “We'll give you $750 for the rights," he said, “providing the fight goes at least four rounds, so we can get enough commercials in to break even." “Is that all?" I said. “How can I offer that to Sugar Ray Robinson?" “It's all we can afford," the radio guy said. So I said it was all right, that I would talk to Robinson about taking the guy he was fighting for at least four rounds. Now I have to get an opponent for him and I hit on a welterweight named Billy Brown.

    A bunch of websites and articles describe this as the last fight in Coney Island for 50 years. The wiki page for the Coney Island Velodrome says that "The last event was an Old-Timers reunion and bicycle race on September 4, 1950. Coney Island Velodrome was torn down and replaced with high-rise housing."
     
    mrkoolkevin, Dec 15, 2015
    mrkoolkevin, Dec 15, 2015
    #73
  14. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    MRkoolkevin, thank you for your interest and post...REMEMBER, I am not disputing that a fight between Ray Robinson and a Billy Brown took place at the Coney Island Veledrome Sept. 4,1950. Not at all...
    And TWO WEEKS later I saw on my 12"TV Ray Robinson decision a
    tough lanky Bobby ****s on Nov. 8, 1950 from Chicago...No dispute there at all.
    But as surely as I am posting this, I and my buddy from Navy days past went to the Coney Island Veledrome, saw Ray Robinson and his
    entourage arrive very late in his Fuscia colored Cadillac. Go into his dressing room, and after several prelim bouts enter the ring, where the announcer CLEARY introduced Bobby ****s from Tampa, Florida
    and Ray Robinson...I recalled then that they fought each other a few years before {1950] which as I mention above I saw on tv...
    I know that the old Coney Island Veledrome closed officially in 1950.
    But I know that it was torn down much later and a housing complex
    named Trump Village was built on that site years later.
    My hunch based on my gut feeling that the fight we saw, and see it we
    did, was a last minute affair between Robby and ****s between 1952 to 1954-5ish..And this fighter was definitely Bobby ****s I saw and not Bobby Brown who fought Robinson in 1950, 2 weeks before SRR fought Bobby ****s in Chicago...I'm afraid there is an answer but the 2 fighters Ray Robinson and Bobby ****s are long deceased...cheers.
     
    burt bienstock, Dec 15, 2015
    burt bienstock, Dec 15, 2015
    #74
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    Wonder if Kompton could clear up this issue?
     
    lufcrazy, Dec 15, 2015
    lufcrazy, Dec 15, 2015
    #75
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