What if frazier had been in his prime at the same time than larry holmes?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by thegoldenera, Feb 23, 2011.


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  1. thegoldenera

    thegoldenera Guest

    I CAN SEE A GREAT TRILOGY BUT STYLES MAKE FIGHTS AND FRAZIER WAS THE HORRIBLE FOR BOXERS, ACTUALLY LARRY HOLMES FOUGHT A WAR AGAINST A PAST PRIME NORTON, JOE FRAZIER HAD MORE STAMINA, HE WAS A MORE COMPACT AND STRONGER MAN, BETTER BODY PUNCHER THAN NORTON,HE WAS HARDER PUNCHER, HE HAD MORE HEART AND COURAGE, HE HAD BETTER DEFENCE, AND HE WAS BETTER PRESSURE FIGHTER. I THINK THAT EVEN ALI IN 1971 WAS AS GOOD AS PEAK HOLMES IF NOT A BIT BETTER WITH BETTER CHIN AND MORE STAMINA.I THINK THAT FRAZIER WOULD BEAT HOLMES 2/3 FIGHTS.

    :think
     
    thegoldenera, Feb 23, 2011
    thegoldenera, Feb 23, 2011
    #1
  2. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Your view of the matchup is very valid but the all-caps, while very manly, makes it painful to read.
     
    Shake, Feb 23, 2011
    Shake, Feb 23, 2011
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  3. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I always find this one among the hardest to call out of all the hypothetical match ups. I lean towards Holmes in a twelve rounder,but Joe in a 15 round contest. Would be close.
     
    Stevie G, Feb 23, 2011
    Stevie G, Feb 23, 2011
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  4. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Please don't use caps, it makes it frustrating to read. Thanks.

    The problem with your analysis is that you seem to compare Norton with Frazier as though they are the same fighter. Look at Norton vs Ali and Frazier vs Ali. Norton has a case over Frazier that in 3 fights Ali never got the better of him even if he won the fight.

    I lean towards Holmes, he was never a sucker for a left hook and though Frazier has the body work to make this fight close, I still think that overall Holmes was polished enough and savvy enough to edge him on the cards.
     
    ironchamp, Feb 24, 2011
    ironchamp, Feb 24, 2011
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  5. Pachilles

    Pachilles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Then Holmes would've been 2nd best until Frazier burned out
     
    Pachilles, Feb 24, 2011
    Pachilles, Feb 24, 2011
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  6. Lobotomy

    Lobotomy Guest

    The experience Holmes gained in sparring with Frazier may have something to do with why he wasn't susceptible to the hook in competition. His right uppercut would be an equalizer, and Larry had the knack of delivering it without opening himself to the hook. Ramos nailed Joe with a right uppercut early. Does Frazier stand up to the right uppercut Holmes ruined Weaver with? (We know Smoke would get up like Hercules did, because you had to kill Frazier to keep him down.)

    Joe didn't have the kind of right necessary to exploit any vulnerability Holmes had to rights, and Smoke's tendency towards facial swelling from the Assassin's hard jab might well compromise his vision faster than Ali did in Manila. Larry could also take it to the body, and did from Shavers.

    1969-1970 Frazier is a top five heavyweight in my opinion. Larry is a top three as I see it though, and was better equipped to deal with a greater array of styles, including Frazier's swarming attrition oriented attack.
     
    Lobotomy, Feb 24, 2011
    Lobotomy, Feb 24, 2011
    #6
  7. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

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    :good

    Agreed.
     
    ironchamp, Feb 24, 2011
    ironchamp, Feb 24, 2011
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  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    In a nutshell.
     
    McGrain, Feb 24, 2011
    McGrain, Feb 24, 2011
    #8
  9. slip&counter

    slip&counter Gimme some X's and O's Full Member

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    Frazier would've caused Larry some serious problems. Holmes struggled in almost all his big fights and even though he was technically very good he was relatively easy to hit clean for a man of his skillset...kind of like Juan Manuel Marquez today. I don't think Holmes would be able to back up or discourage Frazier enough if at all and he would definitely get buzzed at some point by JF at the very least, especially over 15.
     
    slip&counter, Feb 24, 2011
    slip&counter, Feb 24, 2011
    #9
  10. Vince Voltage

    Vince Voltage Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Holmes would outbox him, probably winning 9 rounds.
     
    Vince Voltage, Feb 24, 2011
    Vince Voltage, Feb 24, 2011
    #10
  11. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Holmes gets dicked a lot in this fantasy fight with Joe Frazier... I think Holmes is too tall, fast, skilled who has enough pop in his punches to hang in there and out-box Frazier over 12 or 15 rds...

    Holmes, unlike Ali, was never really open for the left hook.

    Holmes always was decked hard by right hands... "Holmes, Shavers and Tyson" nailed Holmes with rights, not lefts.... Frazier's right was well thrown to the body of his foe, not to his head...

    Holmes beats Frazier in a time machine.

    MR.BILL:bbb
     
    MRBILL, Feb 24, 2011
    MRBILL, Feb 24, 2011
    #11
  12. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Boxers just couldn't **** with Frazier. Not many could, period.
     
    El Bujia, Feb 24, 2011
    El Bujia, Feb 24, 2011
    #12
  13. thegoldenera

    thegoldenera Guest

    no boxer in the history would outbox the ultimate pressure fighter. even a peak ali woul dhave problems against peak frazier. styles make fights, frazier beats boxers, only ali was the exception maybe.
    larry holmes did accept the exchange of blows, and it would be a bad tactic against a angry bull like peak frazier.
     
    thegoldenera, Feb 25, 2011
    thegoldenera, Feb 25, 2011
    #13
  14. KO KIDD

    KO KIDD Loyal Member Full Member

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    A post exile Ali with less mobility beat him twice.

    Holmes probably moved better than post exile Ali

    and his jab was much more powerful

    and he had a great chin

    I would not rule out Frazier but Id gotta say Holmes
     
    KO KIDD, Feb 25, 2011
    KO KIDD, Feb 25, 2011
    #14
  15. thegoldenera

    thegoldenera Guest

    :nono
     
    thegoldenera, Feb 25, 2011
    thegoldenera, Feb 25, 2011
    #15
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