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Manny Pacquiaos So Called Improvements: Careful Matchmaking?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by mughalmirza786, Feb 27, 2011.

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Pimp C Too Much Motion Full Member

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mughalmirza786 said: ↑

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=314pcxGkD3o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo-Ucms_pa8

Props to SaiBox TV. He has some great points. It also highlights what i have been saying for ages and that is that the mexican trio were leagues above guys like cotto, clottey and margarito. Its also why manny really has no respect for guys like cotto or hatton in the ring.
Click to expand...

One of the best videos posted in the history of ESB full of spot on points and astute analysis backed up with video. JMM is the best of the last 6 fighters Pac has faced and there's no denyining it. He isn't there to be hit and he counters the **** outta Pac when he comes in off balanced and shows excellent footwork. This video only furthers my belief that if PBF and Pac ever fight PBF will outbox Pac by wide UD and anyone who refuses to see it isn't being honest with themsleves. The truth is PBF is a stylistic nightmare he's too smart for Pac he won't stand in front of him will frustrate him beat him to the punch and counter him to death and be the ring general.:deal

Pimp C, Feb 28, 2011

#151

CoDer Boxing Junkie Full Member

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Pimp C said: ↑

One of the best videos posted in the history of ESB full of spot on points and astute analysis backed up with video. JMM is the best of the last 6 fighters Pac has faced and there's no denyining it. He isn't there to be hit and he counters the **** outta Pac when he comes in off balanced and shows excellent footwork. This video only furthers my belief that if PBF and Pac ever fight PBF will outbox Pac by wide UD and anyone who refuses to see it isn't being honest with themsleves. The truth is PBF is a stylistic nightmare he's too smart for Pac he won't stand in front of him will frustrate him beat him to the punch and counter him to death and be the ring general.:deal
Click to expand...

See Floyd got all the skills and tools that will give Pacman nightmares.

Oh wait... The moron is still asking for a drug test.

CoDer, Feb 28, 2011

#152

Pimp C Too Much Motion Full Member

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CoDer said: ↑

See Floyd got all the skills and tools that will give Pacman nightmares.

Oh wait... The moron is still asking for a drug test.
Click to expand...

Oh wait and Pac still won't agree to OSDT testing.:deal

Pimp C, Feb 28, 2011

#153
evilsherwin Well-Known Member Full Member

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divac said: ↑

Listen, you'd have to know my history in this forum to know that I'm consistent in why and how I analyze things.......

When people were dismissing Marquez' chances in that Pacquiao rematch because it was pointed too that Pacquiao had made major improvements and was using both hands and fighting more controlled and less Kamakazee, I was in this very forum stating "the fact that Pacquiao has improved boxistically some and is fighting more controlled, that actually is going to play against him vs Marquez."
I went on to note that Pacquiao for whatever technical improvements he could make, could never match X's and O's vs a fighter like Marquez who's been studying at it his entire career.

Fighters like Marquez and Mayweather depend on cerebral wit and round to round adjustments.

Pacquiao does'nt make those adjustments within a round, so he cant even begin to match technical ability within a round.

I had said before the Pacquiao rematch, that because Pacquiao was now using his right hand alot more, that would open more avenues for Marquez to unleach his left hook.

If you study both Marquez-Pacquiao fights and the way they fought......you'll see that in fight 1, Marquez was repeatedly throwing his right hand.
Marquez threw that right hand alot more often in fight one, because he was taking advantage of the opening that Pacquiao was giving him to land that right hand.

If you take a look at the 2nd fight, you see Marquez using his left hand alot more than he did in the first fight.

In the 2nd fight, we saw Marquez use more of an array of shots and looking smoother than he did in fight one, and it was because Pacquiao was trying to match x's an o's against a fighter that was his superior.

Against a better x's and o's fighter, Pacquiao will always revert to comefoward brawling tactics. When he gets hit with combinations you will always see him pound his gloves together to signal his opponent, "stop the technicalities, lets fight."

I've been very consistent on my analysis of Pacquiao.
Boxisticallly he's improved, I was impressed in his MAB rematch that he refrained from going after MAB with more abandon.
What MAB was actually doing in that Pacquiao rematch was was moving to his own left, exactly how Marquez played it vs Pacquiao.
MAB however wanted to bait Pac into consistently advance at him so that he could get his jab going.

Pacquiao did'nt cooperate, and it was because Pacquiao had been well versed by Freddie Roach that this was the only way MAB could compete against him if he let him.

Pacquiao instead of advancing stood center ring and played chess with MAB.
Pacquiao was able to beat MAB in a chess match because all MAB had to offer in that fight was the left hand, and mostly in the form of a jab.

Once Pacquiao knows that a fighter is stricly going to do this, he's athletic and too fast not to take advantage.

People like to point to Pacquiao's demolitions as the fights they're most impressed of him.....

I was actually most impressed with Pacquiao's patience and ability to control the aggressiveness in himself that is what comes natural to him.

Pacquiao made MAB have to come to him, and MAB was'nt versatile enough to make the adjustment and reverse it and force Pacquiao to come to him.

......at the begginings of the Marquez rematch, you can see Pacquiao attempting to do replicate the same against Marquez that he did vs MAB.......

Pacquiao was patient and attempting with the patience to lure Marquez in with feints, just as he had done and was sucessful against MAB.........

Did'nt work!
There are two reasons why it did'nt work.

1. Marquez is more cerebral, he has more know how.
.....and

2. Marquez is more versatile both in shot selection and repertoire and positioning himself in the proper angles to get his shots off.

Pacquiao could not match wit's with Marquez. That lightning bolt of a left hand of his was the only thing that kept the fight in suspense, as Pacquiao proved he could strike unexpectedly with it at anytime.

Marquez or any fighter gets laxed about it because his own combinatiions are free flowing and he can do anything offensively he wishes with Pacquiao.....if Marquez or anyone is'nt razor sharp and alert that Pacquiao can strike with that bolt of a left, they'll find themselves on the canvas.

......but other that that left hand of Pacquiao's, if you diffuse and are in alert for it and you're an elite skill fighter, Pacquiao's yours!!!!dealdeal

Btw, for the *******s to comprehend.....I'm actually playing Pacquiao a compliment here......
There are not too many technically skilled elite fighters that have boxed Pacquiao's era, which makes Pacquiao one of the best of his era!:yep
Click to expand...

Thanks bro :good Thats a well thought out post. What I dont understand is the bolded part , It seems like after marquez you still think its all about pacs left still??

Watch the diaz fight when Pac was practicing his right all day on diaz.

Then watch Dela hoya , his footwork showed immense improvement in that fight

Then Fast forward to Hatton.. remember what pacquiao did in the first round right?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDZFQCgsVw8[/ame]

Your are right though, there are not too many technically skilled elite fighters that are boxing Pacquiao's era.

They lost the urge in the last half of The Pac Mans decade

evilsherwin, Feb 28, 2011

#154

CoDer Boxing Junkie Full Member

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Pimp C said: ↑

Oh wait and Pac still won't agree to OSDT testing.:deal
Click to expand...

He did agree but not on the full term demanded by the *****. Get your facts straight.

Oh Pacman fought shot, over the hill, left over, tailor made fighters.

Yah Pacman skills never improved.

Yah my boy Floyd skill is all wrong for Pacman.

Oh yeah take the test Pacman.

***** bitches.

CoDer, Feb 28, 2011

#155
Reppin501 The People's Champ Full Member

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CoDer said: ↑

He did agree but not on the full term demanded by the *****. Get your facts straight.

Oh Pacman fought shot, over the hill, left over, tailor made fighters.

Yah Pacman skills never improved.

Yah my boy Floyd skill is all wrong for Pacman.

Oh yeah take the test Pacman.

***** bitches.
Click to expand...

Exactly so he's not willing to take sophisticated random drug tests...thanks for clarifiying that, and it's because of his petty pride and/or fear, understood and agreed.

Reppin501, Feb 28, 2011

#156
Broxi Stand With Ukraine Full Member

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They carefully matchmaked him with every top guy in the welterweight division except Floyd who is running scared like a *****.

Who should they have matched him with exactly?

Berto?

Broxi, Feb 28, 2011

#157

MrGlass Active Member Full Member

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Juan Manuel Marquez was a p4p great at 125lbs-130lbs, people act like winning a close decision vs. him at 130 was a bad thing?

Perfect matchmaking? That's downright laughable, name me a fighter with a better resume during the last 10 years than Pacquiao.

MrGlass, Feb 28, 2011

#158
CoDer Boxing Junkie Full Member

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Reppin501 said: ↑

Exactly so he's not willing to take sophisticated random drug tests...thanks for clarifiying that, and it's because of his petty pride and/or fear, understood and agreed.
Click to expand...

Fear... :yep

Where's Floyd?

CoDer, Feb 28, 2011

#159
DrMo Team GB Full Member

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"Boxisticallly"

Anyone have any idea what this means?

DrMo, Feb 28, 2011

#160
KnuckleUp99 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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mughalmirza786 said: ↑

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=314pcxGkD3o&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo-Ucms_pa8

Props to SaiBox TV. He has some great points. It also highlights what i have been saying for ages and that is that the mexican trio were leagues above guys like cotto, clottey and margarito. Its also why manny really has no respect for guys like cotto or hatton in the ring.
Click to expand...

Videos are well put together but that has more to do with the person who made the video's vs any real substance to what his opinions are about PAC. Fact remains that PAC has done things in the sport that not everyone can do.

It's very easy to dissect any man's ring accomplishments and spin it however necessary to met one's own opinion on the subject. But at the end of the day proof is in the pudding. Accomplishments and history has been made by Manny in a way that generates a lot of respect, accolades and attention but at the same time it also brings hate and unfair ciritism.

To say PAC took an easy path to greatness through careful match making is easy to say....it's easy to say for ANYONE past, present or future in this sport...and it will continue long after PAC is gone. His improvements as a fighter are pretty incredible. His timing, balance, craft and skills have all improved under freddie Roach. The natrual gifts he's always had are still there which is very impressive b/c of how far he's come up in weight. Things like his speed, stamina, power and reflexes are still as potent when he was a very raw, one demensial fighter at light weight or feather weight.

KnuckleUp99, Feb 28, 2011

#161

causality Well-Known Member Full Member

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divac said: ↑

Listen, you'd have to know my history in this forum to know that I'm consistent in why and how I analyze things.......

Click to expand...

Divac's analysis of Pac-Hatton

divac said: ↑

Pac would'nt get a chance to beat him to the punch.
Hatton would maul him on the inside, and just tear him to shreds.

Hatton is just too strong a fighter physically for a fighter of Pac's style coming from the lower weights to contend with.

To put it in dog fighting terms, this would be like a doberman pincher going up against a Pitbull!
Click to expand...

causality, Feb 28, 2011

#162
bballchump11 2011 Poster of the Year Full Member

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divac said: ↑

Listen, you'd have to know my history in this forum to know that I'm consistent in why and how I analyze things.......

When people were dismissing Marquez' chances in that Pacquiao rematch because it was pointed too that Pacquiao had made major improvements and was using both hands and fighting more controlled and less Kamakazee, I was in this very forum stating "the fact that Pacquiao has improved boxistically some and is fighting more controlled, that actually is going to play against him vs Marquez."
I went on to note that Pacquiao for whatever technical improvements he could make, could never match X's and O's vs a fighter like Marquez who's been studying at it his entire career.

Fighters like Marquez and Mayweather depend on cerebral wit and round to round adjustments.

Pacquiao does'nt make those adjustments within a round, so he cant even begin to match technical ability within a round.

I had said before the Pacquiao rematch, that because Pacquiao was now using his right hand alot more, that would open more avenues for Marquez to unleach his left hook.

If you study both Marquez-Pacquiao fights and the way they fought......you'll see that in fight 1, Marquez was repeatedly throwing his right hand.
Marquez threw that right hand alot more often in fight one, because he was taking advantage of the opening that Pacquiao was giving him to land that right hand.

If you take a look at the 2nd fight, you see Marquez using his left hand alot more than he did in the first fight.

In the 2nd fight, we saw Marquez use more of an array of shots and looking smoother than he did in fight one, and it was because Pacquiao was trying to match x's an o's against a fighter that was his superior.

Against a better x's and o's fighter, Pacquiao will always revert to comefoward brawling tactics. When he gets hit with combinations you will always see him pound his gloves together to signal his opponent, "stop the technicalities, lets fight."

I've been very consistent on my analysis of Pacquiao.
Boxisticallly he's improved, I was impressed in his MAB rematch that he refrained from going after MAB with more abandon.
What MAB was actually doing in that Pacquiao rematch was was moving to his own left, exactly how Marquez played it vs Pacquiao.
MAB however wanted to bait Pac into consistently advance at him so that he could get his jab going.

Pacquiao did'nt cooperate, and it was because Pacquiao had been well versed by Freddie Roach that this was the only way MAB could compete against him if he let him.

Pacquiao instead of advancing stood center ring and played chess with MAB.
Pacquiao was able to beat MAB in a chess match because all MAB had to offer in that fight was the left hand, and mostly in the form of a jab.

Once Pacquiao knows that a fighter is stricly going to do this, he's athletic and too fast not to take advantage.

People like to point to Pacquiao's demolitions as the fights they're most impressed of him.....

I was actually most impressed with Pacquiao's patience and ability to control the aggressiveness in himself that is what comes natural to him.

Pacquiao made MAB have to come to him, and MAB was'nt versatile enough to make the adjustment and reverse it and force Pacquiao to come to him.

......at the begginings of the Marquez rematch, you can see Pacquiao attempting to do replicate the same against Marquez that he did vs MAB.......

Pacquiao was patient and attempting with the patience to lure Marquez in with feints, just as he had done and was sucessful against MAB.........

Did'nt work!
There are two reasons why it did'nt work.

1. Marquez is more cerebral, he has more know how.
.....and

2. Marquez is more versatile both in shot selection and repertoire and positioning himself in the proper angles to get his shots off.

Pacquiao could not match wit's with Marquez. That lightning bolt of a left hand of his was the only thing that kept the fight in suspense, as Pacquiao proved he could strike unexpectedly with it at anytime.

Marquez or any fighter gets laxed about it because his own combinatiions are free flowing and he can do anything offensively he wishes with Pacquiao.....if Marquez or anyone is'nt razor sharp and alert that Pacquiao can strike with that bolt of a left, they'll find themselves on the canvas.

......but other that that left hand of Pacquiao's, if you diffuse and are in alert for it and you're an elite skill fighter, Pacquiao's yours!!!!dealdeal

Btw, for the *******s to comprehend.....I'm actually playing Pacquiao a compliment here......
There are not too many technically skilled elite fighters that have boxed Pacquiao's era, which makes Pacquiao one of the best of his era!:yep
Click to expand...

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W-Iry0zu5M[/ame] :good

bballchump11, Feb 28, 2011

#163
Divi253 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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He's definitely improved... But his fights Diaz and above were clearly opponents he could take advantage of with his superior speed and movement. But they were the Biggest name opponents he could fight, bringing in the most money and positive views.

Divi253, Feb 28, 2011

#164
evilsherwin Well-Known Member Full Member

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bballchump11 said: ↑

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W-Iry0zu5M :good
Click to expand...

Wow atsch an 11 minute video on how the fighter of the decade aint **** in boxing. Why would anyone waste their time.

Its as dumb as sleeping under a coconut tree full of ripe coconuts.. just ready to drop :tired

Yo , I know your boys on holiday... Pass on the bit about coconuts :happy

I wana see your boy in the ring wit the pac man...dnt be scurred now

evilsherwin, Feb 28, 2011

#165

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