Rocky Marciano, the undefeated champion..

Might have had something to do with Rocky's death soon after

 

You have a point, of course, many great fighters DON'T lose until they hit the skids. However there are plenty of great fighters who lost either on the way up or near their prime. Half the guys you mentioned still lost before they got old, whatever the reason. I don't think it makes that much difference to their legacy.

Off the top of my head I'm thinking Duran, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, B Hop, Pac, Gatti, Ward, - i'm sure there are more.

Of todays crop Donaire and Khan have both lost and it isn't holding them back at all.

 

Gatti and Ward great fighters?

 

I think the Rock is being sold a little short, here. Ali had a tremendous amount of respect for him, and wasn't sure if he could beat him. Certainly he was sure that if he did win it would have to be on points.

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"I truly think he was better than Joe Frazier. You know what Joe Frazier did to me."

 

OK Gatti and Ward were not "great."

But they still lost early on and went on to fight at top level. (Where they lost some more, I know.)

My point is still valid. Undefeated is over rated.

 

Totally depends on the situation. When it comes to someone like Ottke it is. When it comes to someone like Marciano, who is 6(5KO)-0 against atgs, it is not.

 

To me this is pure fantasy. Maybe I'd understand if Rocky was a really advanced fighter or something, and had an incredible skillset or something else. But he doesn't. He's a crude swarmer/slugger hybrid who got decked by old, ring-worn versions of smaller heavyweights. He's less than 200 at his peak, has great stamina and great power, as well as will to win. How does he do in a 25+ round fight out in the sun with guys like Jeffries or Johnson tying him up and imposing their size and clinch/inside fighting on his own. Do you really believe he is stronger than both? How does he do in a slugfest with Dempsey, who absolutely annihilated anyone who came forward to meet him in a hitting match and has a clear speed edge, as well as similar or better power? How does he do against Fitzsimmons or Langford, both of whom annihilated guys with tons of poundage on Marciano and who came willingly into their attack range? If he was put down by Moore and others how do you think he would handle the murderous punches of those two?

I'm not saying Rocky isn't great on his own merits. But to say he beats every HW that came before him is just silly, to be honest. Considering his resume, physical stats, and skillset.

 

Personaly I rank him #3 behind Louis at #1 and Ali at #2.
Marciano has a lot going for him most importantly is his 49-0 record. If that was so easy to do why has no one done it? He has underrated boxing skills and beat quility oppoents.
What works against him is that other heavyweights have better resumes. Walcott, Charles and More were great boxers when he fought them but they were on the downside of their careers. While his boxing skills are underrated there are heavyweights with better boxing skills.

 

This is the best post I have ever read on the subject.:deal

 

It is pretty obvious that Rocky wasn't the best heavyweight, but he has to go down
as the 'Greatest' overall.

Leaving the game undefeated, something no one else has accomplished.

It's more than what you do in the ring, it's also knowing when to leave, as your skills diminish, and you don't embarrass yourself.

Smart enough, not to be tempted by money.
Very few in that category.
Rocky Marciano
Joe Dimaggio
Sandy Koufax

 

I rate ali and joe louis above marciano- I have to because they did so much more. The best any other heavyweight can do is match marciano, I honestly cannot rate anyone aside from louis or ali higher than marciano. it wasnt just the undefeated tag, it was the perfect reign against the best out there AND cleaning them out.

 

With the exception of Joe Louis,and Jack Johnson,how many heavyweights can you see beating Marciano before Sonny Liston came along ? I don't rate Marciano in my all time top 10,because most of the champions that came along after him would beat him,imo. Patterson,Johannson,Spinks bros would lose to him,but people like Ali,Liston,Frazier,Foreman,Holmes etc would. Even Tyson,Holyfield and Lewis would. But I can see Rocky beating the likes of Dempsey,Tunney,Braddock etc.

 

Over the fifteen round distance, Dempsey, Langford, Fitzsimmons could knock him out. MAYBE Baer could get lucky and land a booming right. He would overwhelm Schmeling, Corbett, Sharkey, and Braddock IMO, although maybe Corbett could get on his best bike and win it over a short distance. If you extend the distance to 20+ rounds Jeffries might be able to just wear him down, using his size and his own incredible stamina and strength.

I also contend that younger/fresher versions of Charles and Walcott could have won. Look at how close Walcott came to begin with.

 

I agree with you about Charles and Walcott.

 

Some damn good thoughtful arguments on this thread. For those that dismiss Rocky, wish you'd had the benefit of seeing him live, from ringside.

He was the Little Engine That Could.