Klitschko-Haye: An absurd mismatch and hype job

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by jacklondon, Mar 9, 2011.


Page 14 of 22
  1. jacklondon

    jacklondon Guest



    I will try to find my round by round scoring and repost it here - and challenge anyone to dispute it, round by round. Haye didn't really outland Valuev, and I think the Punchstat figures confirmed that, and I also think they disappeared the punchstat figures after the middle of the fight so that people couldn't see them, but correct me if I'm wrong about that.

    Haye did land that one good punch, and people tend to remember that one, but one punch does not a fight make.

    And yes, I was also struck by the way Valuev (if that's what you were referring to) and his corner stood there meekly without raising a word of protest, or even evincing the slightest surprise, when the decision was rendered and his belt was stolen away.

    I was also struck by Haye celebrating by dancing on the ropes before the decision was rendered, after what was obviously a very close fight.

    I believe that Haye and Valuev were told that if Haye was still standing at the end of the fight he would get the decision.
     
    jacklondon, Mar 11, 2011
    jacklondon, Mar 11, 2011
    #196
  2. jacklondon

    jacklondon Guest


    Thanks. I don't think it will last long either, if it actually even does take place. I'm anticipating some silliness from the Haye team, and that's because i don't believe that Haye is in any way competitive with either klitschko.
     
    jacklondon, Mar 11, 2011
    jacklondon, Mar 11, 2011
    #197
  3. jacklondon

    jacklondon Guest

    By the way, what ever happened to that supposed British Boxing Association (or whatever it's called) supposed investigation of that Haye-Harrison charade - Haye's admitted betting on himself and the round, and the highly suspicious little bit I just referred to, as well as Harrison's highly suspicious docile demeanor?

    Well, the same thing happened to it that I knew would happen to it. It's just like politicians "investigating" other politicians' corruption, but in this case it's boxing mobsters "investigating" other boxing mobsters.

    What I'd like to see is boxing straightened out and become a legitimate sport.
     
    jacklondon, Mar 11, 2011
    jacklondon, Mar 11, 2011
    #198
  4. kidgloves

    kidgloves Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,390
    0
    Nov 7, 2009
    You're wrong and have NO idea what your looking at.

    Haye vs Valuev

    Landed/Thrown/Pct.

    Haye 98/143/68.5%

    Valuev 64/390/16%
     
    kidgloves, Mar 11, 2011
    kidgloves, Mar 11, 2011
    #199
  5. kidgloves

    kidgloves Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,390
    0
    Nov 7, 2009
    Errrrrm. Maybe because it was so goddamn obvious to anyone that Haye had virtually shut out Valuev.
     
    kidgloves, Mar 11, 2011
    kidgloves, Mar 11, 2011
    #200
  6. jacklondon

    jacklondon Guest


    What is your source for those numbers? Link, please.
     
    jacklondon, Mar 11, 2011
    jacklondon, Mar 11, 2011
    #201
  7. jacklondon

    jacklondon Guest

    OK, here it is, my scoring of the fight, round by round, leaning over backwards to give Haye the benefit f every doubt.

    Tell me where I'm wrong if you can. I'm not interested in kiddies calling names and posting little cartoon pictures.


    Round 1. Even. Each landed about 1 punch (announcers scored it for Valuev)

    2. Haye. Backing away but he landed the only decent punch of the round.

    3. Haye. He landed a couple of punches.

    4. Clear round for V.

    5. V again. He's the aggressor and lands more good punches.

    6. V again. Same.

    7. Draw. Neither effective (announcers had it for V)

    8. Haye. He was more effective.

    9. Haye again. Same.

    10. V easily. More aggressive and effective.

    11. V. Both inefective but V landed a couple.

    12. Clearly Haye.

    Decision 5-5 draw. One judge was honest, two judges, the American and the Italian, were crooked. Where are their score cards? Why aren't they called upon to defend their scoring? Their scoring is bogus and indefensible. Why no protest from Valuev and his team? Why did Haye and his team appear to know in advance that they won? Why did Valuev and his team meekly accept the blatant robbery of their title?

    There is no way it was 116-112. Those two scorecards were fraudulent. The British pro-Haye announcers had Valuev winning on their tv scorecard. Even if it was a draw the champion retains the title.
     
    jacklondon, Mar 11, 2011
    jacklondon, Mar 11, 2011
    #202
  8. jacklondon

    jacklondon Guest

    As you can see, the British tv annoncers had Valuev ahead. I watched the fight on British tv. It is not that they were thinking that Valuev would get a hometown decision, as one feller just said, it is that they just plain had him ahead. I was much more generus to Haye than the biased pro-Haye British announcers, and still the best I could come up with for him was a draw.
     
    jacklondon, Mar 11, 2011
    jacklondon, Mar 11, 2011
    #203
  9. kidgloves

    kidgloves Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,390
    0
    Nov 7, 2009
    kidgloves, Mar 11, 2011
    kidgloves, Mar 11, 2011
    #204
  10. jacklondon

    jacklondon Guest

    jacklondon, Mar 11, 2011
    jacklondon, Mar 11, 2011
    #205
  11. Check_Hook

    Check_Hook Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,478
    3
    Jul 23, 2010
    No heart, hes come up from CW to fight the 2 biggest in the HW division, broke his hand in the first against a 7 foot man outweighing him by 7 stone...... What should he do to be considerd to have heart.. Get flopped all around the ring like a fish and get his big brother to get his revenge. Or be miles ahead on the scorecard againts a much smaller fighter with 2 rounds to go and pull out, heart of a lion.
     
    Check_Hook, Mar 11, 2011
    Check_Hook, Mar 11, 2011
    #206
  12. kidgloves

    kidgloves Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,390
    0
    Nov 7, 2009
    No. Jim watt, who is a bit of a laughing stock among British fight fans for his atrocious score cards, had Valuev by 2 rounds and said IF the judges scored it by Haye fighting on the back foot then Haye had won. He tried to score it as if he was a biased judge and said so. Ian darke had it to Haye by 1 round.
     
    kidgloves, Mar 11, 2011
    kidgloves, Mar 11, 2011
    #207
  13. kidgloves

    kidgloves Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,390
    0
    Nov 7, 2009

    Or you could see it like this guy does.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXBB3i_qPpc[/ame]
     
    kidgloves, Mar 11, 2011
    kidgloves, Mar 11, 2011
    #208
  14. wildharpo

    wildharpo Member Full Member

    392
    17
    Sep 29, 2007
    Haters are gonna hate...that's the way it is on ESB. Very few people are able to talk about a fighter they dislike without getting irrational about it and going off on a tangent. Objectivity isn't valued around here.

    Instead of something like:

    "Haye is unproven at heavyweight. He doesn't have the resume and hasn't been in a really tough battle with a strong, talented, experienced heavyweight fighter like Wladimir."

    You'll find on ESB:

    "Haye is a p*ssy - he is a coward that doesn't deserve to even be in the same ring as Klitschko. War WLAD!!!"

    Most people on here have the debating abilities of a three year-old.

    As you stated, Haye (already a small heavyweight due to his cruiserweight background) fought the biggest heavyweight beltholder in only his third fight at heavyweight. When you're facing an opponent that has that much of a height, reach and weight advantage, it's probably not the wisest strategy to try and turn it into a streetfight, where you risk getting caught on the way in and 7-foot Valuev leans on you all night in every clinch (at which point your stamina is severly drained). I've heard many boxing analysts and trainers alike talk about how having the heavier guy lean on you all night does just as much or more to tire you out than moving around the ring does.

    Was it a close fight that could have gone either way? Absolutely - in fact I personally had Valuev ahead at the end. Do I discredit Haye for the strategy he used? Not at all, in the end it worked and he had to count on his ring IQ and quickness with such a size disparity against Valuev.

    This fight may be a little overhyped, but I can't think of a more dangerous opponent for Wladimir (and especially for Haye) in their last several fights. Take a look at this list and tell me Wlad vs. Haye isn't more exciting than:

    Wlad vs Peter II
    Wlad vs Eddie Chambers
    Wlad vs Hasim Rahman
    Wlad vs Tony Thompson
    Wlad vs Sultan Ibragimov
    Wlad vs Lamon Brewster II

    or...

    Haye vs Valuev
    Haye vs Barrett
    Haye vs Harrison
    Haye vs Ruiz

    The ONLY fights in the past three years that MIGHT have been as exciting as this one (for either fighter) before the fight were:

    Wlad vs Chagaev (the number 3 man behind Wlad and Vitali at the time)
    Haye vs Maccerinelli (two power-punching cruiserweight champions)

    I can't fault people for getting excited about this - even if it does turn out to be a dud in the end. They've gotten just as excited over fights that ended up being far worse than Haye vs Wlad could possibly be (see Wlad vs Sultan, Haye vs Valuev).
     
    wildharpo, Mar 11, 2011
    wildharpo, Mar 11, 2011
    #209
  15. ron u.k.

    ron u.k. Boxing Addict banned

    4,920
    12
    Feb 14, 2006
    I tend to agree that this is actually a mismatch.As a Brit I hope he pulls it off and he has the proverbial punchers chance but I just don't see him going beyond 3 rounds,or possibly even 3 minutes.
     
    ron u.k., Mar 11, 2011
    ron u.k., Mar 11, 2011
    #210
Page 14 of 22