Calzaghe Debate part 1

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by DaveyboyEssexUK, Mar 15, 2011.


  1. DaveyboyEssexUK

    DaveyboyEssexUK Boxing Addict Full Member

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    My view of Calzaghe is that he was and is a true World Class Boxer. I prefer to be objective when looking at a boxers skills, and to me Calzaghe was the full package, his jab, workrate, hand speed, foot movement, punch power, agileness,punch resistance and recovery rate, ring craft and on top of that his confidence were excellent, yes thats right i said punch power in that sentance, in his prime Calzaghe had a powerful punch, after his fight with Eubank in which he put Eubank on the deck in round 1, Eubank said ”it was the hardest punch ive ever felt in my life” and Eubank had one of of the toughest chins going, so do your maths.Calzaghe`s style was Unique and bamboozled many an opponent, at some point in his fight with Calzaghe Kessler said to his cornermen "i dont know what to do" and his corner said "keep attacking and hitting him hard" After round 8 in his fight with Calzaghe Jones had this to say to his cornermen "I'm trying to get him but I can't get him!" and all they could say back was "I know ... I know baby.
    Admittedly Calzaghes punch power decreased over time due to hand and wrist injuries to which he had to partly change his style,many critics are ignorant to this fact and state that he slaps, well if he slaps why did`nt the likes of Lacy and Hopkins walk through those slaps with impunity??? At the Calzaghe - Jones Post fight interview Jones said “He won the fight, he definitely won the fight, those pitty-pats were a little harder than I thought. … I couldn’t figure him out.” Calzaghe was nowhere near his peak when fighting the likes of Lacy, Kessler, Hopkins and Jones Jr,his hands were brittle, his punch power long gone, yet Calzaghe outboxed the lot. His defence wasnt the best and was sloppy at times but as the old saying goes the best defence is a good offense, his speed, in and out style and work rate countered this issue to a point, aswell as having a strong chin.What`s ironic is that Calzaghe mostly fought better with his hands down rather than up, here`s an example : Calzaghe was put on the canvas four times in his career, every knockdown was up close and he was caught with a right hand on his left side the main factor why he went down was because he did`nt see the punch coming with his guard up. With his hands down he could see everything coming.

    What i don`t understand is why many boxing fans don`t respect a Great Boxer, many critics ignorantly and biasly ignore the fact that Calzaghe had/has the tools that a boxer needs in his armoury.
    Punch power is not the be all and end all of boxing, boxing is the be all and end all of boxing!! That is why even without the punch power Calzaghe beat his opponents, A true boxer with a tough chin will always beat and outlive a brawler and a puncher in the ring, one example is Hopkins vs Pavlik.

    Now Jones and Hopkins are Greats but how can some say that Calzaghe is not?, critics say Calzaghes opposition was weak, lets have a look.

    Chris Eubank: To beat Eubank is something special, critics can say Eubank was past it aswell as being affected by the Watson fight yet he gave Joe one of his hardest fights and took him into the trenches like he said he would, to put Eubank down in the first round is great accomplishment. For critics to make an excuse that Eubank was past it is daft as any critic could dish Jones in his fight against a past it Mike McCallum who gave Jones problems in their fight. Compare the Eubank fight to the Hopkins fight which one would you prefer to watch?? The Eubank fight everytime! at least he came to fight.

    Juan Carlos Gimenez Ferreyra: this guy was one heck of a durable fighter with a rock solid chin and good recovery rate and had taken Duran , Benn and Eubank the distance and had never been stopped in his entire carreer. Calzaghe beat him into submission and he retired in his corner after round 9.

    Branco Sobot was a replacement for American Tarick Salmaci who pulled out, Calzaghe did what he had to do with a TKO in round 3.

    Robin Reid 26-1-1: Former World Champion 26-1-1 at the time of the fight, thats no bums record at all. Reid was well known for his counter boxing and punching , many claim the decision was wrong,personally i disagree, Calzaghe won that fight and won the first 4 rounds and then the left hand injury occured making the fight harder for him he still did enough to win, it was close but Calzaghe won it, though many dirty critics would jump on such a fight and try and use it as a weapon which is very sad. If Calzaghe hadnt had that hand injury he would probably have won the fight by UD. Here Reid`s own words from a BBC article after his fight with calzaghe BBC Sport Sunday, February 14, 1999 Reid said: "I can't argue with the decision. Joe was the better boxer on the night and I knew I could not catch him for speed." Also Calzaghe wanted this fight when Reid was the World Champ and was rather angry that he did`nt get the fight at that time.

    Rick Thornbury 23-2-0: Aussie Rick Thornbury was a mandatory challenge, and was in his prime at the time of the fight, hats off to Rick who managed to stay in their due to his tough chin to get him through, although he was clearly beaten by the Champ and put on the deck at one point.

    David Starrie: 22-1-0: Starie ran round the ring like a chicken and would not engage the champ, yet critics jumped on Calzaghe cos he didnt KO Starie, how is one meant to KO an opponent who is not willing to put themselves in the line of fire??? The only reason this fight was bad is because Starie came to survive, its no fault on Calzaghe.

    Omar Sheika 20-1-0: Top contender Sheika had American critics backing him saying he was gonna beat Calzaghe, he was no push over as he had beaten Glen Johnson in an eliminator for Calzaghe`s title. Sheika got schooled and blooded and got his first TKO defeat, and yes the end was premature but the result is in no doubt.

    Richie Woodall 26-2-0: Former World Champ who had defeated Malinga for the WBC Super Middleweight Crown, Woddall had also beaten Silvio Branco who later became a World champ. Woodall was also an Olympic Bronze Medallist and was kept out the final by Roy Jones Jr himself. Woodall very underated by many American critics, Woodall was a very good boxer with a very effective jab in his prime and had a knack for beating southpaws.

    Mario Veit 30-0-0: Veit 30 fights undefeated at the time of fighting Calzaghe got bashed out the ring in round 1, just because he was european it did`nt count?? He later got beat by Calzaghe again after climbing the ladder with 15 fights undefeated to get to no 1 spot as mandatory challenger to Calzaghe`s crown, alas he was stopped in round 6 in front of his home crowd. It seems in the prime of his career Calzaghe was the only one who had Veit`s number.

    Will McIntyre 29-2-0: Kid Fire was offered this fight as at the time both Antwun Echols and Charles Brewer had turned down the fight. Kid Fire had never been stopped and was reknowned for his granite chin. Kid Fire got put on the deck in round 3 after a constant beating and schooling by Calzaghe, the fight was stopped in round 4. No other fighter got close to doing what Calzaghe did to Kid Fire, at the end of his Career Kid fire did become the IBA Americas Super Middleweight champ.

    Lacy IBF World Champ at the time praised by many, got schooled,Calzaghe schooled him one handed! ( a point to be put to the critics who say "Lacy wasnt much anyway" is this " Its easy to be wise after the fight") At The Post Fight Press Conference Dan Birmingham said this about Calzaghe " I don't really want to focus on what Jeff didn't do but tonight you saw a master class from Joe Calzaghe. I have never seen such a magnificent performance as that in America or the world over. You know we have a special southpaw in Winky Wright in our team and Joe's performance ranks up their with any of his performances in the US. His performance was masterful. The distance, the timings, angles were fantastic and I assure you that Joe Calzaghe is the only man in the world who could handle Jeff Lacy in this way. We have no issues and were beaten by a master class of boxing from a well respected fighter" and that Calzaghe’s performance was the most efficient he had witnessed live in more than 30 years in boxing.


    Lets also take into account the Evans Ashira fight, Calzaghe broke his left hand in round 3 and went on to win my UD, you cant say that an effort like that isnt backed with class and determination and pure boxing skill??

    Charles The Hatchet Brewer was a tough boxer and former IBF World Champ who beat Herol Graham twice, Brewer wanted to fight Jones who instead decided to go up in weight ,Brewer made two further offers during his career but got turned down. Brewer wanted to fight with Hopkins but money was the issue to halt any chance of a fight happening,.I think Charles would have given Hopkins a good fight. Brewer got cheated out twice by officials in his two fights with Sven Ottke.
     
  2. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    Bums and old men.
     
  3. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Calzaghe only fought bums and old men
     
  4. Meast

    Meast New Member Full Member

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    Was watching his second fight with Veit earlier. He was sharp as hell in that fight
     
  5. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Joe will be viewed,if not already,as a very good,but not great,champion. Capable boxer,but no primetime big names on his resume.
     
  6. horst

    horst Guest

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  7. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Good thread. Not many knew the early part of Calzaghes career but Woodhall and Reid were top rated SMWs, Sheika, Ferreyra, Veit and Starie were or became top 10 rated SMWs. Sobot fought Cherifi to a SD, and Cherifi became a world champ. The fighter Tarick Salmaci went into the first contender series I believe.
    Many did pull out of fighting Calzaghe, Tate, Echoles, Salmaci, Hopkins.
    Calzgahe was a no win situation for these fighters, Reid wouldnt fight Calzaghe when WBC champ and only wanted a chance when not champ and with nothing to lose, same as Brewer. Ottke and Beyer didnt want to know. Credit has to be given to Lacy and Kessler
     
  8. DaveyboyEssexUK

    DaveyboyEssexUK Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Cheers
     
  9. Beouche

    Beouche Juan Manuel Marquez Full Member

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    part 1 huh

    Calzaghe threads been done one or two times before

    This was an epic Calzaghe thread. The poster Bailey single handedly took down and silenced every one of Calzaghes haters in probably the best ESB posting ive ever seen

    http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92045
     
  10. Pachilles

    Pachilles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Americans and blacks cant deal with it
     
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    My view on joe. He'll make the hof hence will be remembered as a great fighter.

    In an ideal world he'd have unified vs beyer and ottke and would have moved up to 175 earlier. As it is he waited it out until top guys would fight him and retired two fights into his lhw career.

    Potentially how great do I think he could have been? I honestly have no idea. I think history will put him about the 100 mark.
     
  12. Pachilles

    Pachilles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Resume aside, he made for some very exciting fights. He always put himself on the line and fought his heart out. The clash of opinion Is basically a UK vs USA thing. He was a game fighter and should be respected as such. He defeated Hopkins, who is still elite level even today. Hopkins always just does enough stinking and spoiling for his fanboys to claim split decision wins for all his losses.
     
  13. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    When Ali first came on the scene in the mid-60's the experts too said he was only fighting "bums & old men".

    Joe Cal was an excellent fighter.
     
  14. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    can't disagree too much with this

    calzaghe was a flawed fighter with great skills, a decent resume, and can claim to be the greatest fighter in his divisions history

    not a bad rep to have
     
  15. the cobra

    the cobra Awesomeizationism! Full Member

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    He was a very good fighter. Nothing more nothing less.


    I never found him particularly exciting though. His style annoyed me more than anything.