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Right now, what is your 1-4 ranking of the top 4 supermiddleweights?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by horst, Mar 12, 2011.

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RafaelGonzal Boxing Junkie Full Member

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that Froch vs Kessler fight couldve gone either way it was far from a convincing victory and I had Froch winning that fight. for me its

Ward
Froch
Kessler
Bute hasnt fought anyone to merit being higher than these guys.

RafaelGonzal, Mar 12, 2011

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TommyV Loyal Member banned

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01. Andre Ward
02. Carl Froch
03. Lucian Bute
04. Mikkel Kessler

TommyV, Mar 12, 2011

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Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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gotta say on talent, bute might be 1 or 2. on resume, he's 3 at best

Jorodz, Mar 12, 2011

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AnthonyW ESB Official Gif Poster Full Member

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I'm finding it really hard to seperate Froch, Kessler and Ward.

Ward beat the #1 guy in Kessler fairly convincingly (ignoring the headbutts). Then Kessler beats Froch in a close, very competitive bout. But then I'd say that Froch has the best resume out of the 3, ever since the Pascal bout...top level opposition one after the another.

Ward has the greatest potential, but his one stand out win is against Kessler...not much after that.

It's an unbelievably hard division to rank at the minute.

(I would have Bute below all 3 of these guys...talent-wise, he would be ranked higher than fourth, but hopefully when he starts getting the bouts against the Super 6 opposition, my ranking of him will change).

AnthonyW, Mar 12, 2011

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bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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HEADBANGER said: ↑

check out fragile popkins p4p ratings from august below. when you've finished laughing at chad dawson being number 3 and paul williams at number 8 :rofl, check out that he ranks andre ward as number 6 p4p purely for a win over kessler - a fighter he has never rated or ever included in his p4p top 20 :deal

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=244189

1.
This content is protected

Why?
He is the man in possession, the king on the throne. As the second-placed fighter is in the same division as the kingpin, the only way he can take this crown is in the ring, and to do that Floyd will have to actually man up, so Pac is safe at number 1 for the foreseeable future. Manny has barely lost a round over the last two years, and is now dominating and decimating men far naturally larger than himself - the definition of a pound-for-pound legend.

2.
This content is protected

Why?
The only choice for number 2, Floyd joins Pacquiao in a league of two far above the best of the rest. Mayweather beat the far smaller Marquez with ease in a routine (and some would argue pointless and unfair) tune-up, but in his next fight he produced the goods big-time vs Mosley. Shook to his boots twice early on, Floyd showed his pound-for-pound star quality by winning every round thereafter. The pressure is now on for him to step up and try to reclaim his former position as number 1. The world continues to wait.

3.
This content is protected

Why?
I realize this may be an unexpected and unpopular choice, but I think Dawson's accomplishments are underrated on the whole. To have beaten Tomasz Adamek as well as Glen Johnson twice, whilst establishing himself as the clear number 1 in the light-heavyweight division, is no mean feat for a young fighter - and anyone doubting the value of the Johnson wins need only see how Johnson turned away top 10 ranked Yusaf Mack in his most recent fight. Dawson has been at the top of his division for a few years now, has beaten the best of the generation before him, and is now taking on the toughest opponent available in Jean Pascal.

4.
This content is protected

Why?
As many on ESB know, I am no fan of Wladimir, not by a long shot. However, even though I find him the most boring boxer of all-time, this does not blind me to his merits. I find it very strange that The Ring continues to ignore someone as dominant as he is. Wladimir is on a long unbeaten streak of dominant victories, and although the standard of opposition has not been great, it is not possible to fight consistently strong comp in a division as weak as heavyweight (especially when a good fighter like Povetkin inexplicably and in my opinion unforgivably shirks out of mandatory challenger status). I do not like Wlad as a boxer, and I do not like the heavyweight division, but a champion this dominant cannot be overlooked when it comes to pound-for-pound standings.

5.
This content is protected

Why?
Martinez is a strange one in terms of pound-for-pound recognition. It wasn't long ago that he was fighting dire competition in small hall fights, and was a million miles away from mixing in this sort of company, but (depending on your personal perspective on the outcomes of some of his recent fights) his last three performances were pretty special. For me he clearly deserved a win vs Cintron, and I scored the Martinez-Williams fight to Maravila. A win over Williams is significant, as the Punisher is himself a legitimate pound-for-pound contender. The major scalp on his record is Kelly Pavlik though, what a win. Martinez, a natural lightmiddle weighing 167lbs on the night, vs Pavlik, middleweight KO specialist who was 178 in the ring, and Martinez turned in a supreme display to thoroughly deserve the verdict - and in my opinion to thoroughly deserve the #5 spot.

6.
This content is protected

Why?
This is another choice which I'm sure many people will disagree with, but pound-for-pound talents are extremely rare in this era, there really aren't many strong candidates, and I think the Super Six leader and favourite deserves some recognition at this point. Although I personally prefer Andre Dirrell as a fighter, Ward is the one who is looking more complete and confident at this stage. To win every minute of every round in a high stakes fight vs Green was superb, and Ward almost shut out Edison Miranda as well. Of course, his greatest win was Kessler, making a mockery of his own inexperience to completely dominate a proven world-class supermiddleweight who went on to take Froch's zero in his next fight. Right now, Ward is looking every bit the next Bernard Hopkins, a long-standing star in the making and a fighter of extreme quality.

7.
This content is protected

Why?
The Mayweather fight did not affect JMM's pound-for-pound standing one iota in my eyes. Marquez was only up at that weight for the payday, and the size differences rendered it a mismatch. However, I think both Diaz fights have shown that Marquez is patently not the fighter he once was. In 2008, JMM showed in the Pacquiao rematch that he was one of the top two active fighters in the world, but since moving above 130lbs I don't think he looks the same. Marquez's frame and body type clearly don't allow him to carry additional weight well - as proven by his bloated, overweight appearance in the Mayweather clash. In the first Diaz fight, Marquez really struggled with the Baby Bull's pace, aggression and strength early on before his own power, skill and accuracy won out. In the rematch, Marquez was again the better man, but it wasn't a dominant or spectacular or even particularly impressive performance - and a pound-for-pound top 3 or 4 guy would annihilate a Juan Diaz-calibre fighter IMO.

8.
This content is protected

Why?
Many people will feel Williams should be above Ward, as Williams has been around longer and has a higher number of good wins on his ledger, but for me Williams has slid a little in the pound-for-pound stakes because of the nature of his recent fights. The Cintron fight had no resolution so no credit can be given to either man for the outcome, and I felt Martinez beat Williams. Winky Wright is well past his best and was coming off a very long lay-off, and Verno Phillips is even older than Winky! I do rate the win over Phillips, but if you are looking for the last time Williams was a convincing winner over a prime top 10 ranked opponent you'd have to go back to the Quintana rematch in '08. I think Williams has the potential to climb back up the rankings, but in all fairness he is in dire need of a big win, and soon.

9.
This content is protected

Why?
I think Donaire is a great fighter, but I do think The Ring have given him an unjustifiably high placing in their top 10. Yes, he pulled off a sensational knockout of Vic Darchinyan... but that was three years ago now. Since then he has beaten a sequence of good, solid comp, but there's no real solid gold wins there. Donaire will occupy a higher placing in these rankings - but he should do so after he has unified titles or beaten another top name, not in anticipation of this.

10.
This content is protected

Why?
I'm not a great believer in Calderon, but the dearth of valid contenders for the pound-for-pound top 10 sees him make the cut on the basis of his unbeaten record and longevity. I haven't been all that impressed with his last few performances on the whole, I think he is on the decline, and I don't think his resume is great, irrespective of the quality of the divisions he has fought in. However, in this era you can't knock a guy who has remained unbeaten as long as he has, he has shown himself to be a skilled boxer over the years.
Click to expand...

atsch

bailey, Mar 12, 2011

#65
Chempasillo Boxing Addict Full Member

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1. bute
2. ward
3. froch
4. direll

Chempasillo, Mar 12, 2011

#66
HEADBANGER TEAM ELITE GENERAL Full Member

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bailey said: ↑

atsch
Click to expand...

fragile ducker popkins at his best :rofl

HEADBANGER, Mar 17, 2011

#67

victor879 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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Ward.

Noway I couldn't put my support behind my hometown fighter. BAY AREA REPRESENT!!!

victor879, Mar 17, 2011

#68
IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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1) Bute
2) Ward (very close behind)
3) Froch

Kessler is a wildcard. He does technically have a win over Froch (in an extremely close fight where a draw would have seemed the fairest outcome). If he comes back and looks poor or even loses to someone lesser, you'd have to bump Froch ahead of him. Otherwise he'd have to wiggle in just ahead of Froch on emeritus status.

IntentionalButt, Mar 17, 2011

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HEADBANGER TEAM ELITE GENERAL Full Member

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IntentionalButt said: ↑

1) Bute
2) Ward (very close behind)
3) Froch

Kessler is a wildcard. He does technically have a win over Froch (in an extremely close fight where a draw would have seemed the fairest outcome). If he comes back and looks poor or even loses to someone lesser, you'd have to bump Froch ahead of him. Otherwise he'd have to wiggle in just ahead of Froch on emeritus status.
Click to expand...

why would you rank bute above froch butthead?

HEADBANGER, Mar 17, 2011

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DOM5153 They Cannot Run Forever Full Member

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I think Froch deserves the nod right now, better resume added to which he has travelled away from home to add decent names to his record, i think Ward will beat Froch when they meet though...

DOM5153, Mar 17, 2011

#71

IntentionalButt FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA Full Member

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HEADBANGER said: ↑

why would you rank bute above froch butthead?
Click to expand...

Bute hasn't lost to Kessler (and wouldn't, IMO - even though I love Kessler and would have picked him back when the matchup was first discussed, after the Calzaghe fight) - or to anybody for that matter.

Bute would beat Dirrell with a lot less controversy and ambiguity than did Froch.

Bute would win h2h.

IntentionalButt, Mar 17, 2011

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somebody Active Member Full Member

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Ward
Froch
Kessler
Bute
:rasta

somebody, Mar 17, 2011

#73
HEADBANGER TEAM ELITE GENERAL Full Member

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IntentionalButt said: ↑

Bute hasn't lost to Kessler (and wouldn't, IMO - even though I love Kessler and would have picked him back when the matchup was first discussed, after the Calzaghe fight) - or to anybody for that matter.

Bute would beat Dirrell with a lot less controversy and ambiguity than did Froch.

Bute would win h2h.
Click to expand...

so you basically base your ranking of bute on fantasy rather than fact :deal

you should try and have a go at basing your rankings on resume.

HEADBANGER, Mar 17, 2011

#74
Jay23 Guest

IntentionalButt said: ↑

Bute hasn't lost to Kessler (and wouldn't, IMO - even though I love Kessler and would have picked him back when the matchup was first discussed, after the Calzaghe fight) - or to anybody for that matter.

Bute would beat Dirrell with a lot less controversy and ambiguity than did Froch.

Bute would win h2h.
Click to expand...

atsch disgraceful post, where are the facts?
what a waste of 46,000 posts:deal

Jay23, Mar 17, 2011

#75

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