Joe Jeannette on Langford and Johnson

Some judge Johnson a victim and a "symbol" of something bigger and more important. Others judge him an a**hole who made his own bed and had to lay down in it. But for some reason many only accept the positive judgements and get angry at those who espouse the negative, ironically accusing them of being "judgmental" and reminding them that they have "no right to judge"(forgetting that they themselves are practicing what they are preaching against). You hear it every day.

Despite what society preaches these days, sometimes it IS good to judge. If you had kids and I was a registered sex offender applying for a nanny position in your household, would you hire me? Why not?

Before you answer, remember you're not supposed to judge!

 

Oh I know. I was actually agreeing with you. Guess I forgot to state that

 

^^^What he said. Waste no time on Boucher, aka the poster formerly known as McVey. He's militant on this topic.

 

I think Jack Johnson was cool. :smoke
Pimp, woman-beater, arrogant ******* who turned unbearable with success, whatever.
Professional prizefighter was hardly a respectable profession in 1900 anyway. It was largely illegal, and it was brutal. And the times and environment bred a different type of man.

He was a great fighter too.

 

Jack Johnson I doubt cared about the consequences of his actions, he was not so much a proud representative of any colour or nation as he was an individual who wanted to make the most out of his life which he most certainly did. I think he did some good and some bad, but in the end you must respect him for his courage to stand up for his rights (if not necessarily the rights of others) in a hostile environment. A proud man who was about as courageous as anyone who ever lived.

 

I do think he drove his car too fast.
He really needed to slow down.
That's how people get killed, y'know.

 

And this is the point that a lot Johnson apologists ignore. Johnson wasnt fighting for the rights of blacks, or the downtrodden, or anyone else. He was basically fighting for himself, end of story. Societies have rules and laws (and Im not talking about race here) that keep us civilized and Johnson simply didnt want to accept those. He wanted to do whatever the hell he wanted to do and didnt want to be told he couldnt do it. Its easier to paint him a victim because of the racial climate of the time but he would have been an ******* whether he was white or black. Im not saying he wasnt a great fighter and Im not saying he wasnt brave. Im saying the fact that he was a ***** somehow gets mistaken for him being somekind of freedom fighter and he wasnt.

 

Johnson was a unique, highly intelligent, fascinating guy .. his story too complex and too easily put into compartments by many who have zero clue as to the life he must have lived ... I find him endlessly interesting ...

 

That's one point of view and a valid one. Another could be that he was a pathological narcissist. That he was so self-absorbed that he didn't care how his actions affected those around him. As long as he was taking his pleasure that others could rot for all he cared. Maybe it was all about getting attention and enjoying provoking people.

Was it courage? Or was it his pathological need for attention, negative or positive(something that even manifested years later when Joe Louis became champ and Johnson couldn't stand it) and being a contrarian?

I don't know. Maybe it's a touch of ALL of it....courage, narcissism, vanity....

People are complex

 

SB, without knowing the man first hand that position would require a ton of assumption to make ... forget about being an armchair shrink, without spending extensive first hand time with Johnson you may as well equally claim anything ...

 

If you wish to refer to me, why not do it straight fowardly ,why go obliquely round the houses?
I got angry because Klompton presumed to know why Johnson's wife killed herself , which he doesn't, neither do I, neither do you.
Your interpretation of how people judge Johnson is, just that , your interpretation, presumptuous ,and no more informed than Klompton's verdict on Etta Duryea's suicide.
According to you, people either revere Johnson, or detest him,I must be the exception then, I am only interested in him as a boxer.
Not in character assassinating him ,nor building him into some demi god of racial equality.

Would I hire you? Not if I wanted a straight talking ,plain speaking advocate .

Your post is weasely.

 

Throw a stone into a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one that got hit, right?

All joking aside, I wasn't referring to you at all. In fact in a recent post I lumped you in among the better posters in here(whether I agree with you or not).

My interpretation of how people judge Johnson is based on decades of reading, researching and listening to debates from experts, historians, writers, fans and people who were there. What I stated was fact that can be proven, that:

A. Some judge Johnson a victim and a "symbol" of something bigger and more important.

B. Others judge him an a**hole, etc etc.

C. MANY only accept the positive judgements and get angry at those who espouse the negative, ironically accusing them of being "judgmental" and reminding them that they have "no right to judge"(forgetting that they themselves are practicing what they are preaching against). You hear it every day.

This is not my "interpretation" any more than my observing that the sky is blue or water is wet is my interpretation. This is the unassailable conclusion that anyone who has done even a modicum of research on Jack johnson would arrive at. Nothing presumptuous about it.

That there are some who only are interested in him as a boxer is also true. If you place yourself within that demographic I have no problem with it.

There were no absolutes stated in my post.

 

Then we are in agreement.Jack Johnson was all about Jack Johnson, somewhat similar to Miles Davis ,who wrote a piece of music dedicated to him.Throw in Sydney Bechet too .
My point of dispute was your presuming to know why Etta Duryea killed herself,end of.