Greater Fighter: Floyd Mayweather or Juan Manuel Marquez?

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by Flea Man, Mar 21, 2011.


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  1. gooners!!

    gooners!! Boxing Junkie banned

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    I dont know Tone, from what I recall most people, before the fight, seemed to be calling it a bit of a joke fight because of the weight disparity, which was only exasperated by the what Mayweather pulled at the weight in. Mayweather is the one who marginalized his victory because he wanted more of an advantage than he already had.

    Mayweather did start at 130, but I guess the difference is, Mayweather had time to work the weight at 147lbs, Marquez didn't, which is probably why he looked barrel chested and slow in the fight, his own trainer was questioning how much his speed had deteriorated before the fight even happened, at the time I thought it was just mind game, but.....

    I do however think that Mayweather would of always beaten Marquez, but maybe not so decisively if Marquez was more comfortable at the weight.
     
    gooners!!, Mar 21, 2011
    gooners!!, Mar 21, 2011
    #46
  2. theboy_racer

    theboy_racer Boxing Junkie banned

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    Both are the best boxers in the world, Mayweather is clearly number 1 and i dont even recognize their fight due to the weight thing.


    JMM is better in every other way though and thats why he is my favourite fighter around, he is just great to watch and i cant help but admire what he has done going to 135 where i think thats almost beyond his limit, his resume is great, people say he doesnt have a defining fight to put him up with MAB and EM, thats nonsense, he beat Pac twice both times 5 years his senior, those are defining fights with unfortunate and poor judging.
     
    theboy_racer, Mar 21, 2011
    theboy_racer, Mar 21, 2011
    #47
  3. Primadonna Kool

    Primadonna Kool Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    How much more did Mayweather weigh..? abaaa 5 pounds..? pathetic.

    You ****ing stupid *****.

    Thats the most stupid comment i have EVER seen.

    Did you not recognise...??????

    Evander Holyfield vs Riddick Bowe I II & III

    "Holyfield out weighed by 30 pounds"

    Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis

    "Holyfield outweight by nearly 30 pounds"

    Evander Holyfield vs George Foreman

    "Holyfield out weight back maybe 40 pounds"

    Mike Tyson vs Tony Tubbs

    Mike Tyson vs Razor Ruddock I & II

    Floyd Mayweather VS Carlos Baldimire

    Floyd Mayweather VS Oscar De La Hoya

    Floyd Mayweather VS Diego Corrales

    I could go on and on..............

    Floyd Mayweather has been out weighed for 70% of his career, but who gives a ****, fighters fight.

    He's not assed, he will still make them look like ******s.

    Watch this video.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbOY8vA6Sis[/ame]


    JMM & Floyd Mayweather are not both the best boxers in the world. JMM looked like a complete ****** against Floyd Mayweather, they are skill levels and athletic levels apart. Its like Superman vs Captain America, i'm not saying JMM is ****. But he's just not on Floyd Mayweathers "Supermans" Power level.

    "JMM can't move up in weight, or face guys who out weigh him. Because he lacks the skills, and speed to bridge the gap in weight"

    Unlike Floyd Mayweather.

    Floyd Mayweather is the better fighter in terms of skill, and he has achieved more in his career.
     
    Primadonna Kool, Mar 21, 2011
    Primadonna Kool, Mar 21, 2011
    #48
  4. Big Dunk

    Big Dunk Rob Palmer Full Member

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    His 2nd fight at the weight was against a former 2 weight undisputed champion. His 3rd fight agaisnt the true lineal world champon.
    His 5th fight agaisnt the true lineal world champion from 140lbs.
    His 6th fight against the no.1 Welterweight in the world.
     
    Big Dunk, Mar 22, 2011
    Big Dunk, Mar 22, 2011
    #49
  5. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    Has he ever faced a WW at or close to their primes, that was actually any good?

    Judah has lost to pretty much every top fighter he's faced
    Baldomir was terrible
    Hatton was a LWW, on the slide despite being unbeaten
    Mosley he didn't want anything of for nearly ten years

    etc

    Ran like a girl from Cotto and Margarito who served up one of the best fights of 2008, and doesn't want any of Pacquiao what so ever.

    He's only really legitimate at 130 and perhaps 135. His run at 140 was just as bad if not worse than at 147.
     
    Beeston Brawler, Mar 22, 2011
    Beeston Brawler, Mar 22, 2011
    #50
  6. Big Dunk

    Big Dunk Rob Palmer Full Member

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    Not the case. He wanted to fight both men and the fights got rejected by the fighter or promoter. He was lineal champion at 130,135 and 147.
     
    Big Dunk, Mar 22, 2011
    Big Dunk, Mar 22, 2011
    #51
  7. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    This thread has gone the same way as most of the others surrounding Floyd.

    I think we've established that most see Floyd higher. Some based on his '0'.

    mr Bellew, I have to say it's odd you bring up Oscar when describing Floyds best performances. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but that's one of his weaker performances IMO.

    HitmanHatton; bringing up the loss to John is odd. A lot of great fighters have suffered losses to lesser opposition. Considering John has never been beaten and the fight was away from home AND controversial; I don't see it as a major slight on Marquez's career.

    I would say Floyd, just about. But let's say the Castillo fight went the other way and one of the Pac fights (deservedly) went to JMM? I don't think there would be much of a debate.

    I would say Marquez is more proven. Mayweather more spectacular (mainly because of the '0')

    It really is down to what you like. As I said in my opening post, both fighters have aspects of their resumes that could feasibly be construed as superceding the other.
     
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    #52
  8. theboy_racer

    theboy_racer Boxing Junkie banned

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    Despite your insult, i still dont recognise it, it doesnt register with me, almost like it never took place.


    ;)
     
    theboy_racer, Mar 22, 2011
    theboy_racer, Mar 22, 2011
    #53
  9. Bonavena25

    Bonavena25 Vamos! Full Member

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    The size differential between Oscar and Floyd was as big as if not greater than the one between JMM and Floyd, so you can't completely discount the that fight due to weight. Remember Mayweather isn't a fighter that really uses his size either. Yet you rarely hear the haters give Floyd props for it or bring it into the equation when discussing his effort against De La Hoya.

    Mayweather ----> Marquez by a square country mile.
     
    Bonavena25, Mar 22, 2011
    Bonavena25, Mar 22, 2011
    #54
  10. HitmanHatton

    HitmanHatton Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Maybe the Chris John loss on its own isn't bad because John is a good fighter but if people want to put Marquez up against Mayweather, he shouldn't be losing to fighters like that and thats when the loss counts against him.
     
    HitmanHatton, Mar 22, 2011
    HitmanHatton, Mar 22, 2011
    #55
  11. dftaylor

    dftaylor Writer, fanatic Full Member

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    John's not some bum. He's a skilled awkward fighter. Mayweathrr was lucky to get the w against castillo and looked **** in the rematch too. a true great shouldn't be struggling with someone as limited as castillo, by your logic.
     
    dftaylor, Mar 22, 2011
    dftaylor, Mar 22, 2011
    #56
  12. HitmanHatton

    HitmanHatton Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Castillo was the best Lightweight in the world at the time so I would hardly call him limited and it was also Mayweather's first fight at Lightweight.
     
    HitmanHatton, Mar 22, 2011
    HitmanHatton, Mar 22, 2011
    #57
  13. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Duran lost to Kirkland Laing.
    Pac lost to some Thai joker.
    Jose Napoles lost to John H Stracey
    Sugar Ray Robinson lost to Randy Turpin.

    There are many more. But these guys also BEAT top opposition. JMM has many more wins and top performances against the eat fighter of the last ten years (and arguably won both) that surely make up for te loss against John?

    A man who still hasn't lost by the way.

    I don't rate Marquez higher myself, but I don't rate JMM lower because he lost to someone who has been in the top of his division for years.

    Quick question, and jot being funny AT ALL; do you just go via the official decision or do you judge how good a fighter is based on what you see? Because the loss to John is hardly embarassing. It's away, it's close and it's a **** fight. He wasn't sparked in a round. He also went on to do much better things, which would make a loss to a top ten fighter excusable IMO.

    Whereas Khans loss to Prescott? Inexcusable.

    The John loss is not one of those fights IMO. I would also say that he has faced better fighters than John and won. He has faced the eat around, sometimes you pick up a loss here and there.

    Does any of the above mean anything do you think? Or would you still rank Floyd higher based on wins-to-loss ratio?

    As I said at the beginning all are valid arguments. I also said recently that I rank Floyd higher than James Toney because Toney, whilst facing better competition and having the best win out of the two, had a patch in his career that was simply inexcusable, and eradicated some of the good work he had done. Floyd, whilst not having anything spectacular on his resume, has a lit of goods wins.

    I think anyones rating of Marquez is down to those fights with Pac; if you gave him one (especially the one at 130 before he tore through the divisions above) then you have to give him a victory of the very highest accolade.
     
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    #58
  14. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    If we are going by wins vs losses then Calzaghe would rank higher than Hopkins for similar reasons..... and it simply ain't true.

    Marquez >>> Void.
     
    Beeston Brawler, Mar 22, 2011
    Beeston Brawler, Mar 22, 2011
    #59
  15. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    You've missed his point. Despite his high ranking, Castillo was a fighter who could only do one thing essentially. He was a limited fighter, regardless of how good he was at it (very good IMO)

    Still there have been better Lightweights that have been beaten more impressively. A quality win but in the grand scheme of things? Not much.
     
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    #60
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