Greater Fighter: Floyd Mayweather or Juan Manuel Marquez?

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by Flea Man, Mar 21, 2011.


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  1. TFFP

    TFFP The Eskimo

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    Marquez clearly isn't ahead of Floyd in any aspect though. He just ain't. He has nothing thats better than what Floyd's done, his list of wins is inferior, he doesn't have a better marquee win (maybe unfortunate here), he couldn't transfer upwards as successfully as Floyd, he got beat down by Floyd.

    I'm no Floyd lover but, come on now.
     
    TFFP, Mar 22, 2011
    TFFP, Mar 22, 2011
    #61
  2. HitmanHatton

    HitmanHatton Boxing Addict Full Member

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    When comparing things like this, I think you have got to go by the offiicial decision IMO. The reason being if people go by their own opinions of who won such n such a fight then their argument doesn't really stand up IMO.
     
    HitmanHatton, Mar 22, 2011
    HitmanHatton, Mar 22, 2011
    #62
  3. WalletInspector

    WalletInspector Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    You've got to go with what you saw IMO. There's no point in us sitting here saying that Holyfield has a Draw against Lewis when we all know that is far from the truth.
     
    WalletInspector, Mar 22, 2011
    WalletInspector, Mar 22, 2011
    #63
  4. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    I'm not rating him higher.

    His performance against Pac in the 2nd fight is as impressive as any Floyd fight I've seen. Because of who he's in against.

    But the weight thing? Floyd had fought as high as 154. Marquez never above 135. I mean come on? Floyd also didn't exert his advantage, just took it easy and outboxed a man he could've stopped. Not the mark of a 'great' IMO. Considering him having faced better Welters than Marquez (who isn't a Welter) I was left let down by Floyds showing.

    Floyd showed against Mosley he could put it all together. Against Marquez he looked untouchable. That's not enough. For a fighter as good as he is with a size advantage that's not particularly impressive IMO.

    Then again, I don't rate it too highly on Floyds resume. It's Marquez's daftest move as well IMO. An exhibition for one, money making for the other.

    I think Floyd has as many solid wis as Marquez, has been consistent and demonstrated a more economic style. Marquez has longevity, better opposition and arguably the best single win out of the two.

    I go for Floyd based on the fact I CAN see Pac winning the 2nd fight. I don't think it was a Sturm-Oscar type decision. Marquez demonstrated his awesome ability in that fight and I scored it him, but he didn't beat Pac like say, Canzoneri beat McLarnin. Or Duran beat Ray Leonard.

    A close, competitive fight which is common when the best fight the best. But again, nothing extraordinary.
     
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    #64
  5. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    :yikes:-:)nono:dead:fire:twisted::nut:shock::verysad:-((
     
    Beeston Brawler, Mar 22, 2011
    Beeston Brawler, Mar 22, 2011
    #65
  6. HitmanHatton

    HitmanHatton Boxing Addict Full Member

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    My favourite post in this thread, I couldn't agree more.
     
    HitmanHatton, Mar 22, 2011
    HitmanHatton, Mar 22, 2011
    #66
  7. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Okay. So you would consider someone an easy winner if all scorecards came back 120-108, even though you SAW a much more competitive fight?

    Your argument is as potent as anyones when you have evidence to back it up. The Judges have an opinion of who gave a etter account of themselves just as much as you or I do.

    They're you're rankings. No one can prove anything, you have to make up your own mind. I would say simply consulting Boxrec, which is essentially what you're saying the best way to gauge a fighters ability is, is possibly the worst way to see how a fight went.

    Further to what Wallet says; did Chavez earn a draw against Sweet Pea?

    There have been many accounts of one sided fights being given the wrong way. When arguing you have to take every possible thing into account. The 'official result is nothing to do with YOUR OPINION :good
     
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    #67
  8. HitmanHatton

    HitmanHatton Boxing Addict Full Member

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    When considering who is better than who, you have got to go by official scorecards IMO.

    An example would be when Mayweather beats Pacquiao, Mayweather's resume would have one up on Marquez's resume even though many people think Marquez won those fights (I compared those two resumes for the purposes of this thread).
     
    HitmanHatton, Mar 22, 2011
    HitmanHatton, Mar 22, 2011
    #68
  9. JukeboxTimebomb

    JukeboxTimebomb Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'd say Marquez is more comfortable fighting southpaws.
     
    JukeboxTimebomb, Mar 22, 2011
    JukeboxTimebomb, Mar 22, 2011
    #69
  10. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Mental. And I think most would agree with me. The win would out Floyd clearly ahead of Marquez I agree (if he won impressively) but that'd have nothing to do with the 'official scorecards'.

    Did Trinidad beat Oscar?
    Did Oscar beat Sturm?
    Did Paul Williams earn a wide card over Martinez? Someone saw that he did on the 'official scorecards'.
     
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    #70
  11. HitmanHatton

    HitmanHatton Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yes they did and when people look back in Boxing history, they will see Oscar as a six-weight world champion because of the Sturm win and Martinez and Oscar will both have losses on their records aswell.
     
    HitmanHatton, Mar 22, 2011
    HitmanHatton, Mar 22, 2011
    #71
  12. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    Marquez isn't even as great as his Mexican contemporaries let alone Floyd Mayweather.
     
    Addie, Mar 22, 2011
    Addie, Mar 22, 2011
    #72
  13. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    Marquez deserves a lot of credit for being so successful as a Lightweight, but the opposition he saw off wasn't exactly top shelf. Michael Katsidis? Juan Diaz? Joel Casamayor? Solid opposition, yes, but there is nothing there that immediately catches the eye. "Wow, Marquez beat a borderline shot Casamayor?" It doesn't quite work. None of the above fighters were even thoroughly dominated, in fact, two of them arguably came close to winning by stoppage.

    Marquez isn't in possession of a signature win or even a great win, and that is why I consider him to be the least impressive of the three Mexicans. Not everyone scored the two Pacquiao fights in his favour, two fights that were razor close and could have conceivably been given to either fighter. No robberies took place. "But...but...Marquez almost beat Manny". Operative word being "almost". Scoring fights is subjective, but anyone who had those fights anything but close clearly missed the boat.
     
    Addie, Mar 22, 2011
    Addie, Mar 22, 2011
    #73
  14. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Nice avatar.

    By the way, what 'signature win' does Floyd have that is above 'solid'. Not just the name but in context? So no, not DLH or Mosley, in short. Unless you have your reasons for thinking thosefights were quality wins.

    When YOU are ranking YOUR opinions are what matter. If Marquezs 'win'/s over Pac mean a lot to YOU then YOU are allowed to say that.

    As I said to TFFP earlier it hardly makes him a lock for the top 100 :lol: But Floyd is the most disposable of 'greats', not anything special at all.
     
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    #74
  15. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    People that look back at Boxrec. Who gives a **** what they think?!? Genuine boxing fans will SEE :deal :good
     
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    Flea Man, Mar 22, 2011
    #75
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