Vitali an ATG? Are you serious?

sure didn't....
thanks Ali

 

Something like this:

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Lennox Lewis
4. Rocky Marciano
5. George Foreman
6. Larry Holmes
7. Evander Holyfield
8. Mike Tyson
9. Wladimir Klitschko
10. Joe Frazier
11. Jack Johnson
12. James Jeffries
13. Vitali Klitschko
14. Sonny Liston
15. Max Schmeling
16. Ezzard Charles
17. Joe Walcott
18. Floyd Patterson
19. Riddick Bowe
20. Gene Tunney

 

I won't expound on Jeffries as i am not enough of an expert, however most would say 15 is to low as far as serious students of the science go! Jeffries had not fought in 6 years, and had to shed 100 lb's to get in shape for the Jeffries fight....If anyone holds that against him, we might just as well count Ali's loss to Holmes against him.

I totally agree with the era's thing. A boxer really needs to be retired for around 5 years before making a realistic gauge of their place in history...Lewis likewise was not the highly rated guy before us in many rankings...Duran was often much lower than he is today, during his own era...Time works as a filter to get to the realistic legacy. My guess is both guys end up top 20, with Wlad in the 10-15 range and vitali in the 15-20 neighborhood. I don't have them there now, but when we can see their era in a different framework, I imagine like most history will rate them highly.

 

In Jeffries defense he came out of retirement to fight Johnson and he clearly wasn't in his prime. May have been the same result regardless but you have to consider that.

 

Again, Jeffires wasn't in his prime against Johnson. It may still have ended in a Johnson win but you have to consider all the facts.

 

I won't critique your entire list, but will ask about Tunney....some like yourself have him top 20, but with the small handfull of fights he had at that weight, what does he do that gets there..let alone above Dempsey, Norton, Wills, McVea, Jeanette and others

 

ye i agree regarding the johnson - jeffries fight. I'd eaxpect it to have still been a johnson victory but ye, you can't hold it against him. i was just stating from the point of view that johnson was awesome and you can't count any loss to him, as a bad thing, especially not one from 5/6 years out.

i'm not saying i have jeffries as number 15, i'm saying i have him outside the top 10.

 

i'm one of those "dempsey really knocked tunney out" kinda folk.

 

you made the claim, back it up. or leave this thread alone so we can discuss real boxing.

 

no dempsey or langford?

 

Cooney???? Nevermind we don't even need to see your list!!! LOL

 

i wouldn't really argue to much with that. excpet you have schmelling twice?

the only guy i'd strongly reject would be tunney.

 

Tunney does hold two wins over Dempsey (an old one) and two over Harry Greb, at least one of which I believe was at heavyweight. I think that should seal the great Gene's place on a heavyweight list, especially considering he was by all means a light-heavyweight.