P4P Question using Lewis and Tyson as examples.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by DonBoxer, Mar 25, 2011.


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  1. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

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    This is a question not regarding them H2H in anyway. Not to discuss their carers in terms of who done what. Its more to understand peoples idea of P4P and their opinions on the differences in P4P when comparing two fighters of the same weight.

    Most people , on the whole , in the classic rate Lewis higher than Tyson at Heavyweight.

    Most people , on the whole , in the classic rate Tyson higher than Lewis P4P.

    Both men fought their entire career at one weight.

    So why is it that many choose to rate Tyson over Lewis P4P?
    Is this because people give him credit for being the smaller man?
    Are people factoring celebrity into the P4P debate?

    Everyone has their own take on P4P so this is just one of many questions i will be asking over the next few weeks to decipher what the classic uses as its general P4P formula.
     
    DonBoxer, Mar 25, 2011
    DonBoxer, Mar 25, 2011
    #1
  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Lewis's prime weight was aproximately 30lbs more than Tyson's.

    Therfore, if you regarded their acomplishments at heavyweight to be more or less equal, then you would have to rate Tyson higher p4p.

    If you rate Lewis's acomplishments higher, they you would have to decide whether it was by enough to offset the difference in weight.
     
    janitor, Mar 25, 2011
    janitor, Mar 25, 2011
    #2
  3. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    I reckon there exists 2 types of "P4P" rating systems:

    "Greatness P4P" is when people compare the Greatness of Greats across all weight divisions, to formulate crazy "Greatest 100" lists...

    "P4P H2H" is how much each lb of a fighter is worth, when they were at their Peak...

    This should help you think about how those "P4P" ratings systems apply to Lewis & Tyson.
     
    Kalasinn, Mar 25, 2011
    Kalasinn, Mar 25, 2011
    #3
  4. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    In terms of "P4P H2H", I rate Peak Tyson (#2 Peak H2H) as better H2H than Peak Lewis (#3), & considering Lewis weighs 21-38lbs heavier when comparing Peaks, that must mean i consider a Peak lb of Iron Mike to be more valuable than a Peak lb of Lennox.

    For "Greatness P4P", you would just rank the one who rates higher for "Heavyweight Greatness" as better.
     
    Kalasinn, Mar 25, 2011
    Kalasinn, Mar 25, 2011
    #4
  5. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

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    Thanx lads this is exactly the type of analysis i am looking for.:thumbsup
     
    DonBoxer, Mar 25, 2011
    DonBoxer, Mar 25, 2011
    #5
  6. kmcc505

    kmcc505 Sweet Scientist Full Member

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    Curious to see your "Peak H2H" for HWs.
     
    kmcc505, Mar 25, 2011
    kmcc505, Mar 25, 2011
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  7. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    I might post an updated version of the list in the relevant Classic forum topic tomorrow.

    I don't want to put it here though, as it's not entirely relevant to the thread.
     
    Kalasinn, Mar 26, 2011
    Kalasinn, Mar 26, 2011
    #7
  8. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I personally think Holyfield ranks higher than both Tyson and Lewis on any P4P list.
     
    Vanboxingfan, Mar 26, 2011
    Vanboxingfan, Mar 26, 2011
    #8
  9. kmcc505

    kmcc505 Sweet Scientist Full Member

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    Ok please do.
     
    kmcc505, Mar 26, 2011
    kmcc505, Mar 26, 2011
    #9
  10. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

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    He does but thats besides the point and does not help answer the question.
     
    DonBoxer, Mar 27, 2011
    DonBoxer, Mar 27, 2011
    #10
  11. greathamza

    greathamza Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    and i think ali is ranks higher that doesnt help the thread
     
    greathamza, Mar 27, 2011
    greathamza, Mar 27, 2011
    #11
  12. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

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    :good You seem to get the idea.
     
    DonBoxer, Mar 27, 2011
    DonBoxer, Mar 27, 2011
    #12
  13. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

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    Do it Kally.
     
    DonBoxer, Mar 28, 2011
    DonBoxer, Mar 28, 2011
    #13
  14. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I think when understanding the impact of P4P, you also have to consider the way in which the fighter approached his opposition. Tyson was a small heavyweight but he dominated and dispatched fighters in a more spectacular fashion than Lewis did. Tyson didnt take the safe route against opposition, he approached every fight the same, whereas Lewis didnt. When Tyson was in his prime and presented with his most competitive opposition (prefight hypewise), he performed at his best and most dominating. Lewis on the otherhand did not and I think a lot of people take this into consideration when ranking Lewis, and for the record I think Lewis can easily be ranked right in line with Tyson on the ATG list and I think Tyson was the better fighter overall, just squandered his skills and thats why he is ranked right along Lewis.
     
    lefthook31, Mar 28, 2011
    lefthook31, Mar 28, 2011
    #14
  15. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Because P4P is Pound for Pound not Weight Class for Weight Class. Lennox is however underrated P4P
     
    PowerPuncher, Mar 28, 2011
    PowerPuncher, Mar 28, 2011
    #15
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