Gil Clancy's Views of Carlos Monzon

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by sugarsean, Mar 27, 2011.


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  1. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Isn't 14 a little late to be playing with dolls?
     
    El Bujia, Mar 27, 2011
    El Bujia, Mar 27, 2011
    #31
  2. sugarsean

    sugarsean Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So who you got ahead of him, is he even in your top 10 ?
     
    sugarsean, Mar 27, 2011
    sugarsean, Mar 27, 2011
    #32
  3. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Getting shot does kinda **** up a career.

    Still, he is the greatest championship fighter the division has ever seen.
     
    Seamus, Mar 27, 2011
    Seamus, Mar 27, 2011
    #33
  4. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    :deal
     
    red cobra, Mar 27, 2011
    red cobra, Mar 27, 2011
    #34
  5. sugarsean

    sugarsean Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I' d disagree with that I think both Ray Robinson (before the comeback) and Marvin Hagler would of beaten him
     
    sugarsean, Mar 27, 2011
    sugarsean, Mar 27, 2011
    #35
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think Hopkins, Robinson, Greb, Burley (with thanks to Stonehands and dp) and Tiger would all beat him.

    An imagined Yarosz, Williams, Ketchel, Jones, Steele and Hagler are the clutch he belongs in. I'm not convinced he'd beat all of those guys.

    In short, he's been tumbling down my head to head list for the past 18 months. I could now entertain a top 10 head to head without his being in there, though he would be in mine.

    As Seamus rightly points out, he's likely the best championship fighter in the history of the division. He's a top 5 lock in terms of pure greatness and a good shout for #1.

    Who do you guys think would have the best change out of Benn, Eubank and Watson? Watson takes a horrible beating, right?

    GP, I take it you have him messing up a young Charles?
     
    McGrain, Mar 27, 2011
    McGrain, Mar 27, 2011
    #36
  7. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Monzon would've beaten Tiger 9/10, the loss coming when he's on Griffith II form.
     
    El Bujia, Mar 27, 2011
    El Bujia, Mar 27, 2011
    #37
  8. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    And the more I think about it the more comprehensively I have him beating Hopkins.
     
    El Bujia, Mar 27, 2011
    El Bujia, Mar 27, 2011
    #38
  9. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    Well I don't have a top 10, but I guess he'd have to be in there somewhere, not at the top though.

    I don't actually think Monzon was that bad, probably great, I just don't buy into the Escopetardship that runs all over here, and I don't have an agenda, I rate/slate all kinds of fighters from all eras. I just don't believe the ESB creed of "Monzon was the most technically perfect fighter ever", "Briscoe and Valdez were greats", "Monzon would have beaten Jones like a child" etc.
     
    itrymariti, Mar 27, 2011
    itrymariti, Mar 27, 2011
    #39
  10. sugarsean

    sugarsean Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Are you being serious with that part ?
     
    sugarsean, Mar 27, 2011
    sugarsean, Mar 27, 2011
    #40
  11. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    Tiger, really?

    Never really considered it. You'd imagine Monzon would be hell for an inexperienced fighter but Charles athleticism, aggressive-mentality, youthful energy and most importantly superb skills may give Monzon something to think about. But, yeah, you would have to favor him to take over by the middle rounds and start to put some punishment on Charles.

    I'd have to look a bit more into Charles' early losses (Overlin, Tunero) but they came against guys with superb lateral movement and busy workrates. Not exactly Monzon's best traits.

    Not really thought too much about Charles chances as a great Middleweight, as he wasn't one for that long, although IMO partly by choice.
     
    GPater11093, Mar 27, 2011
    GPater11093, Mar 27, 2011
    #41
  12. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    CHAMPIONSHIP fighter. His championship record is better than either of two you mentioned.

    I have Monzon beating down Robinson in somewhat Napoles form (though over more rounds) and largely negating Hagler's attack by his superb use of distance, great jab and sweeping the championship rounds to a decision.
     
    Seamus, Mar 27, 2011
    Seamus, Mar 27, 2011
    #42
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yes.

    If I saw a list, top ten, head to head, that didn't have Monzon on it, I wouldn't think it was a total disaster. Great division, great history. But I think he would be on mine. Here's the kind of thing:

    01 - Robinson
    02 - Greb
    03 - Steele
    04 - Hagler
    05 - Burley
    06 - Hopkins
    07 - Langford
    08 - Williams
    09 - Tiger
    10 - Ketchel
    11 - Monzon


    I don't think that this is a list completely without merit.
     
    McGrain, Mar 27, 2011
    McGrain, Mar 27, 2011
    #43
  14. Sonny Carson

    Sonny Carson Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I agree with you, especially with Hagler.
     
    Sonny Carson, Mar 27, 2011
    Sonny Carson, Mar 27, 2011
    #44
  15. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    Monzon "beating down" Robinson while past his prime. Here we go again. :lol:
     
    itrymariti, Mar 27, 2011
    itrymariti, Mar 27, 2011
    #45
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