Sam langford, great?

His career.

 

Oh dear God, where to begin? I'll take a flawed and hasty stab at starting a conversation for the uninitiated which much better and more informed historians here than I can correct, refine and elaborate on.

For starters, 129 knockout wins indicated by a certain record keeping website (so far as we know). I don't know what the record number of knockouts was before Sam came along, but I'd imagine he swamped the whatever the previous standard was by a similar gap to what Ruth did with respect to home runs in baseball. Moore barely topped it at 131, needing until 1962 to get past Langford.

Sam had excellent wins over the distance too, over Gans, Blackburn, Jeannette, Young Peter Jackson, McVea, Jeff Clark, Battling Jim Johnson and others. We might not expect a man of his 5'6-1/2" stature to decision the quality and variety of opponents he did. 316 bouts over a span of nearly 25 years is respectable longevity. Though losing his vision over the last several years, he never lost his mind, indicating defensive proficiency as well as punch resistance. Decisioned Gans in Boston over the championship distance in 1903, and knocked out Flowers in the Tiger's own Georgia in 1922. If this isn't the longest time between wins over ATGs, it's awfully close. It seems certain that 19 years must have been the record interval at the time. In 1923, he knocked out Jim Flynn yet again immediately after the Fireman himself stopped Flowers for his final career win. A prompt and final rematch saw Langford decision veteran Flynn over eight to open 1924. (Jim Flynn's own 26 year longevity deserves to be acknowledged, and Nat Fleischer included both in his list of 75 Twenty-Year men in 1957.)

It doesn't hurt that there is film of Sam's prime against Bill Lang and Joe Jeannette, and what is very possibly his peak performance, the third match with the Fireman on Saint Patrick's Day 1910, the only scheduled 45 rounder of Langford's career, when he had just turned 27.

Until he was 34 years old, he was only stopped by Jeannette (retiring between rounds seven and eight in their first bout on Christmas 1905). Despite all the heavyweight competition he engaged in with horsehair padded gloves weighing from four to five ounces, nobody halted him again until the giant and deadly punching Fulton bloodied his eyes closed after six rounds in June 1917. Wills stopped him twice the following year when he was 35. He wasn't stopped again until 1922. Just after Sam turned 39 in April 1922, 29-1-2 Tut Jackson stopped him in five (The Terror would later avenge this within a single round.) Langford was virtually blind by this time. But then, he obscenely went on a 29 fight undefeated streak (according to boxrec-Fleischer's 1957 record book says this was a nine fight streak), lasting until the end of July 1923. Clem Johnson TKOed him in 13, from which he rebounded with one of his numerous wins over the Fireman. Sam's reported activity for 1924 was 11 bouts, six wins by knockout, against one loss, not bad for a 41 year old blind man if true.

Jack Blackburn shared the ring with Gans, Langford (both over the championship distance), Greb (over six rounds in 1917) and other greats and notables. He was convinced Sam was the best of all time. That's a pretty imposing first hand endorsement.

He was already past prime when he generated two one punch left hook knockouts over a peaking Wills, in 14 rounds during 1914, and 19 rounds during 1916. Between 1912 (Kid Cotton) and 1927 (Uzcudun), nobody else punched Harry out. (A broken wrist forced Wills to stop against Battling Jim in 1917.) That Sam knocked Harry out twice when already past age 31 is monstrous when considering the historical stature of Wills. It seems clear who the better man was in a hypothetical peak for peak situation.

 

First class summation.

 

If you really want detail, then consider buying the Clay Moyle book.

 

How could one even justify asking this question?

 

Dammit, YOU are one of the stalwarts here I look up to and am depending on to improve what I posted for the uninitiated. You, McGrain, Janny, Stoney, Cross_trainer, Klompton, mattdonnellon, and a shitload of others, etc... (How is it a little amateur pissant like me gets to be the one making the introduction to Sam for lufcrazy?)

 

Absolutely, and it's the responsibility of more senior and knowledgeable scholars and historians on this forum to respect, embrace and inform such curious inquiries. Keeping the history alive is one of the best ways to promote the future of the sport.

By all means, view the footage of Langford-Flynn III, Langford-Lang and Langford-Jeannette X, all readily available on youtube.

 

If you can't improve on a thing, leave it alone, I say.:good

 

Are you referring to the bout they actually did have? Sam appears to have taken a substantial beating over the championship distance, getting floored in the process, and it was described as the worst thrashing he took until past his prime. The Galveston Giant outweighed him by nearly 30 pounds then.

Now, as great as Sam was, I don't see him winning the heavyweight title from any champion of his era besides Burns, so his logistical window of opportunity closed at Rushcutter's Bay the day after Christmas in 1908. He somehow needed to get to Burns before Johnson did. I can't see him dethroning Lil' Artha either by decision or knockout, nor the giant and durable Willard, who used his height very effectively against the 6'2" Johnson in Havana.

Yes, Sam should have gotten a title shot at Johnson, just as Wills should have obtained one against Willard or Dempsey. That's not the same as actually winning the championship. (And I think Harry would have had to knock out Big Jess to do it under the prevailing rule set and mentality of the time. The heavyweight title did not change hands in this way until Tunney snatched it in 1926, although Corbett came close in 1900.)