Could Anyone Stand And Trade With a Peak Tyson from 1986-88

Fought with virtually one eye for the most of his career, cataract issues, serious hypertension, 214 pounds as opposed to 205 lbs. I don't know what you're seeing if you can't see the difference between the fighter who cleaned up the division in the late 60's to the FOTC and the fighter who showed up to defend his title in Jamaica. Foreman himself in repeated interviews believes he wouldn't have been able to handle the Joe Frazier 68- FOTC. Add to the fact that Foreman couldn't keep Joe down. Do you think Tyson gets up as quickly to engage another stand and trade contest with Joe? I don't think so.

 

Frazier fought his entire career having just about contracted every possible disease known to man - we knew that already.



For one,Frazier never cleaned up the heavyweight division at any point in his career.Secondly,the fight between Foreman and Frazier didn't last long enough for an extra couple of pounds to play it's part - something Frazier himself even acknowledged:


http://news.google.co.uk/newspapers...eorge+foreman+joe+frazier+drawing+board&hl=en


Truth is,Frazier had never been tested against a fighter that was anywhere close to what type of fighter Foreman was.There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the fight would have even been slightly different had it occured during the period that you consider Frazier to have peaked in.


And what Foreman says now can only be taken with a pinch of salt.He's known for making such claims since he reinvented himself as good ol' uncle George.

I assume you meant Foreman rather than Frazier in the bold.I'm certain that Foreman wouldn't be bouncing Tyson off of the canvas like a basketball as early as the first two rounds.And say what you want about Tyson,but I don't recall him every turning his back and running away to escape his opponent - which is what Frazier did at one point against Foreman.

 

Didn't bold anything. Still, there's a big difference in the Frazier of 1968-pre FOTC and the Frazier who showed up to defend his title in 73. I shouldn't have to point it out to you if you know this sport.

You are right though, Foreman wouldn't be bouncing Tyson off the canvas because Mike would probably doesn't get up after the first knockdown. Lack of heart and toughness I'd call it. Sure, onne can take what George says today with a grain of salt, but he knew that Frazier was ready to be had and wasn't the same fighter that Ali fought the first time.

There's absolutely no evidence either that would suggest Foreman would have an easy fight had he and Frazier fought before the FOTC. Foreman was still very green in 68/69.

I still say Frazier could stand and trade with Tyson and I don't think Mike survives Frazier's body attack for 8 or more rounds.

You can go your way, I'll go mine.

 

Holyfield.

Tyson wasn't prime, by any means when the two of them fought, but Holyfield was past his peak, too. Put them in the same ring when the two of them are at their absolute best, and I think Holyfield does the same thing to Tyson in that instance that he did in the first fight.

Also, Oliver McCall, Chuvalo, Tua, and Ibeabuchi have the durability to survive in the pocket with Tyson and engage in a shoot-out. They might not win, but the'd last a while, methinks.

 

Chuvalo was stoppable as was proven twice. Stop the overrating of Chuvalo. Tyson would have busted him up quite quick.

 

Holyfield was another one who took one of the biggest shots from Tyson. Granted it wasnt sustained, but it was one hell of a shot. The very first punch of the first fight, Tyson ducked to his left which usually meant a lefthook was coming, but he fired a huge righthand which hit Holyfield right on the button. Holyfield was definitely stunned for a split second, but man he took that shot well. I knew it wasnt going to be a quick fight when that happened.

 

Shavers, Liston, Foreman, I grant you. I disagree with Dempsey & Johnson.

However, none of them guys had the speed of Tyson & none of them had the ability to rattle of combinations where-by all the punches in that combination had the same power!

 

Have you seen either of Chuvalo's two TKO losses?

 

atsch

 

Randall"Tex"Cobb.

 

Yeah, but that was in the tail end of this career, and even then, he stayed on his feet throughout against Frazier and Foreman. If they couldn't put him down,he's got a good chance of staying upright against Tyson, too. I said he might last a while, not win...And I stand by that statement whether you like it or not.:deal

 

68/69? Do you really lack such confidence in Frazier that you need to pick out the greenest version of Foreman possible?


Unless you're truly deluded enough to believe Frazier had declined so greatly,and was absolutely shot by the time Foreman fought him,there is no reason to believe the fight would have went any other way had it occured even two years earlier.Foreman destroyed him in such fashion that its laughable to suggest the fight could ever have gone any different had they fought at a stage that suited both - in terms of experience.



A few pounds was the "major" difference between Frazier of the Foreman fight and the Frazier of first Ali fight,that's all.




Foreman wouldn't have been bouncing Tyson off of the canvas,period.Tyson was too much of a rock to be treated in such humiliating fashion.

 

Actually both of them . He appeared quite helpless and outmatched in both of them. Going the distance with Ali was nothing to be proud of for a HW.
Who knows ? maybe if Chuvalo fought Norton he'd have managed to get stopped too.

 

Mike took huge shots throughout his career, sustained accumulation is what stopped him.