Cruiserweight Match: Jack Dempsey Vs David Haye

Where's yor cut off point then?

Haye KO1 Louis? :think

 

Okay. I consider you a very good poster, so I'm chucking something at you.

-Why is Haye, despite his own deficiencies, such a favorite in your eyes purely due to modern conditioning?

-And who is the first 'great' Heavy you'd make a favourite over Haye? Liston? Ali? And why would they not necessarily get bombed out early doors?

-OR is it because the early guys were too undersized? More 'recent' Heavys are more comparable to Haye in terms of stature and unlike say, Jess Willard or Buddy Baer, have the requisite technical skills to go along with their bulk?

A bit of a ramble I admit, but eager to here your thoughts :good

 

No probs mate, you know how my mind works I can type out a near essay in a few seconds (even if most of it is a nonsensical ramble)

I felt it weird that someone like yorself, who can really appreciate a textbook maestro would feel it necessary to deem Louis 'old fashioned'.

Sung Kil Moon prospered in an era with much 'better' conditioning techniques let's not forget :hey

I am very much of the school of thought that 4oz gloves will hurt in a different. Punches may be thrown in a way that is not instantly recognisable, but also that time hasn't necessarily made man 'tougher'.

Haye could move, pot shot and land something big on Dempsey and take him out. He could also be caught in an exchange and brutally laid waste to.

I was looking for a 50-50 debate that polarised opinion, this hasn't really heated up but I was quite excited when you joined the fray.

Still, don't feel bad A stab in the dark pick based on what you know thus far on Dempsey? :good

 

Fair enough. I'm not sure about infinitely faster, but good, measured post all the same :good

As it stands, I consider Dempsey quote overrated. I wouldn't rush out to watch all that's available on him mush, Tunney was far the superior fighter IMO :good

 

Good post. Haye himself has said that smaller fighters give him more problems (no link but it's out there) and Dempsey was fast, ferocious AND hard hitting.

A better finisher IMO. I doubt Haye would last long against the shellackig Dempsey handed out to Willard.

There is one moment in that fight where Dempsey slips a straight jab BEAUTIFULLY. He's not out of his depth in this fight IMO.

 

Good post. I can see both sides of the coin.

Marciano Vs Haye would probably garner a similar response. It's The Rock all the way for me though, tough as old boots and with subtle defensive nuances, he would survive the early rush and break Haye down IMO.

 

I agree that his reign was overrated but I would also be lieing if I said he wasn't a top 20 HW (anywhere between 11-20 is fine by me) and, stylistically he does appear a nightmare for Haye.

Then, Haye is a different specimen to what Dempsey will have saw. Not a man battle hardened after numerous fights with the best but a consumate athlete able to turn his punches over in a different way to how Dempsey wouldve experienced it (most of the time; there are of course examples of fighters from Dempseys era and beforehand that would need only a few tweeks to survive in today's game) and has the benefits of a healthy diet and less wear and tear.

Haye also has years of boxing knowledge to draw from. However, his unorthodox, reflex-based style and dependence on punch picking rather than volume, is ironically more associated with an 'old timer' style. It's fairly unorthodox, which is what Dempsey would be used to. Haye would be facing a very, very unpredictable fighter from what he is used to.

I tried to pick two fighters that everyone would know but from totally different ends of the spectrum. Unlike my previous stab at it, Bob Fitzsimmons Vs Joe Calzaghe, this is a more 'visual' matchup (I.e it is easier to imagine how these styles might gel, as opposed to Fitz-Calzaghe which was literally impossible to come up with a decent summary for ) and I think that, regardless of conditioning, it would be an absolute war.

The styles demand it, regardless of era.