Rocky Marciano Would Knock Out Sonny Liston

But Liston did not beat all the best of his time. He did not meet ingo, moore, terrell or Frazier. He failed miserably against ali. isnt it a fact Chuvalo and mildenburger gave ali a beter fight than Liston did?

I do credit Liston for beating folley as I also credit henry cooper, I credit Liston for beating machen but not almost as much as I credit Ingo for knocking him out.

Yes Moore, Charles and walcott had also been knocked out before when marciano fought them but the point is each overcome and stepped up at world level from that point where as I dont think Listons guys harris, foley and williams did. They were not world champions for starters.

A fighters time as a champion is the apex of what they were about unless it is liston...

 

The Johansson fight not happening was certainly not for a lack of trying on Liston's part. Liston would've killed old Moore, we should be glad it didn't happen. Terrell and Frazier were hardly late 50's or early 60's fighters were they? It's the same as criticizing Marciano for not facing Floyd Patterson or Liston, not to mention Nino Valdes, Clarence Henry, Bob Baker and a host of other heavyweights that were around in his time. He beat the main men and that's what it comes down to.

Liston probably won more rounds in the 6 rounds he fought against Ali than either of those two did. None were able to do much to Ali who happened to be probably the greatest heavyweight of all time.

How many attempts did Machen, Folley and Williams get at a world title in their prime? Walcott was terrific but it took him five tries to win a world title, which was very generous on the part of Charles.

 

The contrast i was making was that marciano knocked out the 3 men to hold titles during his pro career. The fighters who held titles in listons career was patterson,ingo,ali, terrel and frazier. Liston fought just floyd and ali of those five. One sonny could knock out the other knocked him out. Its not the same.

debatable.

walcott deseved so many shots because he was such good value, cleaning out a lot of the contenders and always putting up a good fight against the champions of that time. machen foley and williams deserved shots at the title also but no more than harold johnson, bob satterfeild and henry cooper who beat them.

 

Explain how this is different than saying Marciano did not fight Patterson, Ingo, Machen, Foley, Williams or Liston ? These half baked attempts are silly.

 

I think Rocky can win this thing. He had underrated hand speed and defensive skills. Being much the smaller target, he might well be able to slip Sonny's slowish jab on the way in. Moore and Walcott had speed and reflexes Liston lacked. Marciano's combination of physical strength and low center of gravity ought not to be underestimated here. (He was a center on the gridiron, and catcher in baseball.) Liston probably goes on the back foot in this situation. Late in his career, he's seen doing just that against an opponent similarly structured to Marciano, the 5'9" Scrap Iron Johnson. Of course Rocky is infinitely greater, and Scrap Iron proves that somebody of Marciano's build and weight could stand up under Sonny's power. (Liston later forced the huge Wepner on his back with a right to the body, so the impact of his blows had not deserted him.)

Liston and Frazier corner man Milt Bailey said the difference between the two was that Liston was a bully, while Frazier was a bulldog. Rocky was also a bulldog, and I think his punch resistance was considerably greater than Joe's. Sonny had better draw some serious blood on Marciano, but that's no sure thing considering that their differences in stature would minimize butting, plus Rocky's underrated defense against Liston's slowish punching. Leotis Martin outlasted Sonny in part by keeping things at half distance, a favored range of Marciano's. (Charles survived Marciano I in part by smothering Rocky in close, taking away punching room Sonny would allow Marciano.)

Eventually, I believe Rocky would hit pay dirt with his right, either over the top, or short and straight (like the one which got him the title, a tremendous short right rather than a Suzy Q). Coming off the deck early, Marciano probably doesn't do it with one right, but a relentlessly clubbing succession in a follow-up assault.

 

Liston did not mind missing a jab because he was always ready to come up with an uppercut on the crouching opponent. It's how he set up Patterson for the knockout.

I think even Walcott would agree that it was extremely generous that he was given a 5th title shot after losing to Rex Layne, then failing to win against Charles a second time.

 

An articulate and informed reply as always, McGrain. When I said "slowish" that was in a relative context, as when Machen said after his 1962 draw with the Big Cat that, "In a way, he's tougher to fight than Liston, because he has speed the other doesn't have. You can't walk around Cleveland the way you can Liston." Machen's frame of reference for Sonny's speed was as it was in 1960, not eight to ten years later.

 

Williams was faster than Liston, but it's not like Machen was walking around Liston doing whatever he wanted, he got soundly outpointed while against Williams he went to a draw.

 

All those fighters you named had longer primes than liston.

Please dont misunderstand me, I never said Liston was not great, he was, for example I rate him above gene tunney. I dont think sonnys prime was that long or that he should be granted such kudos that he walks through a fighter not so far away from his own era like marciano who was never knocked out.

 

and levels. There is a distinction between elite level fighters and regular contenders. Liston scores high for knocking out patterson but not so high for not knocking out machen, although to be fair machen was hard to pin down because he was in survival mode and not really going for a win himself in their fight.

Liston was an impresive heavyweight champion I just cant see him making light work of marciano.