which fighters were one win away from being the goat?

Nice, detailed answer. Thanks.

How do you see Greb matching up with more contemporary talent though? How would he fair against Robinson and Monzon at MW? Charles and Spinks at LHW? I can understand that given his achievements in his own time, Greb may well have to go down as the Greatest fighter that ever lived, but I find it hard to believe he'd be able to beat more modern athletes. Thoughts?

 

I think i rate the Heavyweights more so than the majority of people do. People often talk about lower weight fighters being generally better technical and capable of flashier, smoother skills and boxing ability altogether. Someone will rightly then say that effectiveness is what counts, it doesnt have to look pretty. Well i see the vastly superior capabilities of knocking opponents out as you move up the weights(peaked at HW obviously) to be extremely effective. Then in turn, the capability to take these bludgeonings to be even more effective. So that explains why im not scared to stick Heavweights right up there.

And then when it comes to Ali, he had all the technical ability and physical capabilities of the lighter weight guys. As well as the effective toughness to dominate monsters. And monsters is what he fought, past his prime even then he whooped the most monstrous one. Its not really that common for a great to meet another great in their division, nevermind another prime great. But with Ali, we've got wins over several top 10 all time greats in his division. And as i said, i rate the Heavyweights.

And i'm sorry, i love Joe Louis. But he is just the guy, the other option that you can choose and look respectable, without appearing to be mainstream and a failed hipster. He is clearly no.2, but Ali looked much better and fought much better competition

I also think that if he didnt tell everybody that he was so much, people on here would be more likely to rate him as such.

 

Although I agree with the majority of this, I do feel Louis looks tremendous on film. He's certainly number 2, but Ali is a lock as far as I'm concerned. I don't see how any educated fight fan can look past the man's longevity and quality of opposition. He "whupped" Liston and Foreman, and defeated Frazier 2 times out of 3. Staggering form.

 

The same way that if ali didnt run around yelling "I AM THE GREATEST" anytime he had the opportunity?

Louis>Ali for me. I think he was significantly more dominant, was a better technician, and fought overall comp a cut under Ali's... But to me Louis is just better. He never split any series. He won with difficulty a couple of times and if he rematched he would win even more conclusively. He was also a lot cleaner of a fighter(no bull**** holding behind the head), so I give him an edge there as well.

It's not really Louis fault he didnt have a smoke or anyone else to test him near his prime- he was just that much better than everyone else out there.

 

You rate Louis higher because he didn't hold fighters behind the head and instead of splitting a series he went 1-1 with Max Schmeling, a fighter Ali would have mangled and embarrassed any day of the week? I think I'll always find holes in peoples reasoning for rating Louis higher than Ali because it's almost impossible to do. Louis may have been more aesthetically pleasing, he may have been cleaner on the eye, but so were many fighters. It's not a criteria for where greatness is concerned.

Why is Louis better? Who did he beat that Ali wouldn't have beaten...and convincingly?

 

No what i was saying that Ali doing that, makes people reluctant to rate him as such. Technically Louis might have been better, his physicality isn't of the highest echelon though. And physicality is more effective in the HW division more so than any other.

It's not really Ali's fault either. But Ali was tested, against better opposition. Some of the best competition, of all time. The best possible competition in the entire history of the sport. And he came out on top.

 

:huh those would be just another victories

 

Would be interesting to see what would have happened if Lewis wouldn't have been KO'd against McCall and Rahman, but for two punches he may have gone undefeated, and wouldn't have had the glass chin moniker some give him.

 

I think Ali's win column and own number of title defences are ultimately more impressive than Louis' consistency against patchy competition. As I say, I can't see past dominant victories over the likes of Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Floyd Patterson, Jerry Quarry, etc.

I can almost accept someone ranking Louis based on his title defences, but condemning Ali for holding behind the back of the head? Making note of his self-promotion as if that is the reason he's highly regarded as opposed to his actual achievements? "He never split any series"? Never-mind that it was Joe Frazier he fought three times, and the Norton fights all came after Ali was visibly past his best days. If anything, it's a credit and testament to Ali's abilities as a fighter that he would fight quality opponents like Frazier & Norton three times a piece.